SpinVox Visit - it's coming

by Ben Smith on 5th August 2009

  Comment Icon102

spinvox_logo1A quick and somewhat late-night post to let you know that we do have a write-up coming of our visit to SpinVox yesterday to see their system in operation. There have already been several posts by other attendees, but we want to provide a little more of the background information we think those who’ve been following this story will appreciate.

Stay tuned.

Tagged as: SpinVox

  • anonymised

    Clearly, The Really Mobile Project has a really major conflict of interest as Mr. Whatley plays no small role in your project and his credibility reflects on your credibility, and so it is not surprising that you’d wait until everyone else chimes in on the SpinVox demo day before declaring your position, or publishing your “background information” that will provide context (i.e.., spin, rationalization) for the negative reaction from others. Good defensive move if you are working for SpinVox, I suppose, but ridiculous (and subject to ridicule) if you are pretending to have some journalistic integrity. The only surprising thing is that you think that you could appear at all objective. Aren’t you just a bit embarrassed?

    • http://invalid.name DanLane

      We’re obviously not embarrassed enough to hide behind anonymity, like you. In fact, we’re not embarrassed at all.

      We’ve been entirely open about James’ involvement with both SpinVox and The Really Mobile Project and have made it perfectly clear that James has no editorial control over our SpinVox coverage which will be written entirely by Ben and myself who have no financial or personal interest in presenting anything other than facts and our own personal opinions.

      I’d also like to point out that we aren’t journalists, we’re part-time bloggers who have full time careers in the telecoms industry. This gives us the advantage that we know what we’re talking about but obviously conflicts of interest do come up from time to time and we’re always up front and honest about them so, hopefully, both our existing community and newcomers to the site have their expectations set accordingly.

      • http://benjam.in Ben Smith

        I second Dan’s comments and simply say this: Wait to read what we have to say. If you think it’s biased then, say so and we’ll discuss it. At the moment you’re accusing us of bias because we both have full-time jobs.

        This short holding post was published at 3am because we realised we just couldn’t get the full one out last night.

      • http://benjam.in Ben Smith

        I second Dan’s comments and simply say this: Wait to read what we have to say. If you think it’s biased then, say so and we’ll discuss it. At the moment you’re accusing us of bias because we both have full-time jobs.

        This short holding post was published at 3am because we realised we just couldn’t get the full one out last night.

        • anonymised

          No, I am not accusing you of bias because of what you say or because you have full time jobs. I stated the unquestionable fact that the *situation* presents a conflict of interest because of James Whatley’s affiliation with both SpinVox and your project. The conflict of interst comes from the fact that negative perceptions of SpinVox and Whatley would reflect poorly on The Really Mobile Project. This conflict of interest situation exists independent of what you write. You can try to be fair, and I personally believe that you want to be fair, but your words and actions cannot change the fact that you have a undeniable conflict of interest by any definition. It is not a matter of financial interest in SpinVox as a company. The conflict of interest comes from issues of credibility, reputation and brand, the currency of social media.

          As for you words and actions, the fact that you have not yet provided any inkling of your position regarding the demo yesterday does not give this reader the sense that you are the most credible source of information and opinion on the subject.

          Rather than spend time debating me, why don’t you just publish your initial impressions of the demo while the subject is still topical?

          • http://yiannopoulos.net/ Milo Yiannopoulos

            I have to be honest, guys: I don’t see how you can touch this story, given James’s position at SpinVox.

          • http://yiannopoulos.net/ Milo Yiannopoulos

            I have to be honest, guys: I don’t see how you can touch this story, given James’s position at SpinVox.

          • http://yiannopoulos.net/ Milo Yiannopoulos

            I have to be honest, guys: I don’t see how you can touch this story, given James’s position at SpinVox.

          • http://yiannopoulos.net/ Milo Yiannopoulos

            I have to be honest, guys: I don’t see how you can touch this story, given James’s position at SpinVox.

          • http://mobile-review.com markwebster

            I did say that the other day (much to Ben’s annoyance) :)
            innocent until proved guilty eh!

          • http://mobile-review.com markwebster

            I did say that the other day (much to Ben’s annoyance) :)
            innocent until proved guilty eh!

          • http://mobile-review.com markwebster

            I did say that the other day (much to Ben’s annoyance) :)
            innocent until proved guilty eh!

          • http://yiannopoulos.net/ Milo Yiannopoulos

            > innocent until proved guilty eh!

            Unfortunately, that’s not how conflicts of interest work.

          • http://yiannopoulos.net/ Milo Yiannopoulos

            > innocent until proved guilty eh!

            Unfortunately, that’s not how conflicts of interest work.

          • http://yiannopoulos.net/ Milo Yiannopoulos

            > innocent until proved guilty eh!

            Unfortunately, that’s not how conflicts of interest work.

          • http://yiannopoulos.net/ Milo Yiannopoulos

            > innocent until proved guilty eh!

            Unfortunately, that’s not how conflicts of interest work.

          • http://mobile-review.com markwebster

            I did say that the other day (much to Ben’s annoyance) :)
            innocent until proved guilty eh!

        • anonymised

          No, I am not accusing you of bias because of what you say or because you have full time jobs. I stated the unquestionable fact that the *situation* presents a conflict of interest because of James Whatley’s affiliation with both SpinVox and your project. The conflict of interst comes from the fact that negative perceptions of SpinVox and Whatley would reflect poorly on The Really Mobile Project. This conflict of interest situation exists independent of what you write. You can try to be fair, and I personally believe that you want to be fair, but your words and actions cannot change the fact that you have a undeniable conflict of interest by any definition. It is not a matter of financial interest in SpinVox as a company. The conflict of interest comes from issues of credibility, reputation and brand, the currency of social media.

          As for you words and actions, the fact that you have not yet provided any inkling of your position regarding the demo yesterday does not give this reader the sense that you are the most credible source of information and opinion on the subject.

          Rather than spend time debating me, why don’t you just publish your initial impressions of the demo while the subject is still topical?

        • anonymised

          No, I am not accusing you of bias because of what you say or because you have full time jobs. I stated the unquestionable fact that the *situation* presents a conflict of interest because of James Whatley’s affiliation with both SpinVox and your project. The conflict of interst comes from the fact that negative perceptions of SpinVox and Whatley would reflect poorly on The Really Mobile Project. This conflict of interest situation exists independent of what you write. You can try to be fair, and I personally believe that you want to be fair, but your words and actions cannot change the fact that you have a undeniable conflict of interest by any definition. It is not a matter of financial interest in SpinVox as a company. The conflict of interest comes from issues of credibility, reputation and brand, the currency of social media.

          As for you words and actions, the fact that you have not yet provided any inkling of your position regarding the demo yesterday does not give this reader the sense that you are the most credible source of information and opinion on the subject.

          Rather than spend time debating me, why don’t you just publish your initial impressions of the demo while the subject is still topical?

        • anonymised

          No, I am not accusing you of bias because of what you say or because you have full time jobs. I stated the unquestionable fact that the *situation* presents a conflict of interest because of James Whatley’s affiliation with both SpinVox and your project. The conflict of interst comes from the fact that negative perceptions of SpinVox and Whatley would reflect poorly on The Really Mobile Project. This conflict of interest situation exists independent of what you write. You can try to be fair, and I personally believe that you want to be fair, but your words and actions cannot change the fact that you have a undeniable conflict of interest by any definition. It is not a matter of financial interest in SpinVox as a company. The conflict of interest comes from issues of credibility, reputation and brand, the currency of social media.

          As for you words and actions, the fact that you have not yet provided any inkling of your position regarding the demo yesterday does not give this reader the sense that you are the most credible source of information and opinion on the subject.

          Rather than spend time debating me, why don’t you just publish your initial impressions of the demo while the subject is still topical?

      • http://benjam.in Ben Smith

        I second Dan’s comments and simply say this: Wait to read what we have to say. If you think it’s biased then, say so and we’ll discuss it. At the moment you’re accusing us of bias because we both have full-time jobs.

        This short holding post was published at 3am because we realised we just couldn’t get the full one out last night.

      • http://benjam.in Ben Smith

        I second Dan’s comments and simply say this: Wait to read what we have to say. If you think it’s biased then, say so and we’ll discuss it. At the moment you’re accusing us of bias because we both have full-time jobs.

        This short holding post was published at 3am because we realised we just couldn’t get the full one out last night.

      • http://yiannopoulos.net/ Milo Yiannopoulos

        But Dan, with respect, “being open” isn’t enough, nor are the caveats you’ve just given.

        As far as I can tell, this is a clear conflict of interest. It simply isn’t true that you have “no personal interest” in presenting anything other than the facts. What you mean is that you have no intention of doing so. But they’re two quite distinct concepts.

        Having good intentions doesn’t excuse you from a conflict of interest: if it did, the concept wouldn’t exist, because anyone with a COI would simply say “Oh, but I’m going to act ethically!” and that would be the end of it.

      • http://yiannopoulos.net/ Milo Yiannopoulos

        But Dan, with respect, “being open” isn’t enough, nor are the caveats you’ve just given.

        As far as I can tell, this is a clear conflict of interest. It simply isn’t true that you have “no personal interest” in presenting anything other than the facts. What you mean is that you have no intention of doing so. But they’re two quite distinct concepts.

        Having good intentions doesn’t excuse you from a conflict of interest: if it did, the concept wouldn’t exist, because anyone with a COI would simply say “Oh, but I’m going to act ethically!” and that would be the end of it.

      • http://yiannopoulos.net/ Milo Yiannopoulos

        But Dan, with respect, “being open” isn’t enough, nor are the caveats you’ve just given.

        As far as I can tell, this is a clear conflict of interest. It simply isn’t true that you have “no personal interest” in presenting anything other than the facts. What you mean is that you have no intention of doing so. But they’re two quite distinct concepts.

        Having good intentions doesn’t excuse you from a conflict of interest: if it did, the concept wouldn’t exist, because anyone with a COI would simply say “Oh, but I’m going to act ethically!” and that would be the end of it.

        • http://benjam.in Ben Smith

          Milo,

          We have a choice - say nothing and be criticised for ‘giving SpinVox an easy time’ or write-up our visit and be criticised for being conflicted. It’s lose-lose.

          Anyone writing about this industry will eventually have the need to write about a friend, colleague or product they have some affiliation with. We have decided to handle this by putting the situation very clearly in the readers’ view and letting them decide it’s value.

          You’re welcome to disagree with this position, but I have not yet been persuaded that silence is a better option or that a 3rd option exists.

          Ben

          • http://yiannopoulos.net/ Milo Yiannopoulos

            Hi Ben,

            I think that’s a false dilemma. The most sensible course of action would surely have been to write a post explaining that since James is a SpinVox employee, TRMP has a conflict of interest and will not be reporting on the SpinVox affair. Bang. Done. Who would have accused you of giving SpinVox an easy time?

            I understand the desire to have your say on the SpinVox debacle but in this case I think it’s going to come with consequences. Whatever you write is going to be written off as either overly favourable or overly critical anyway, so what’s the point?

            To be honest, with James in the team, I personally wouldn’t be writing about SpinVox at all.

            Milo

          • http://yiannopoulos.net/ Milo Yiannopoulos

            Hi Ben,

            I think that’s a false dilemma. The most sensible course of action would surely have been to write a post explaining that since James is a SpinVox employee, TRMP has a conflict of interest and will not be reporting on the SpinVox affair. Bang. Done. Who would have accused you of giving SpinVox an easy time?

            I understand the desire to have your say on the SpinVox debacle but in this case I think it’s going to come with consequences. Whatever you write is going to be written off as either overly favourable or overly critical anyway, so what’s the point?

            To be honest, with James in the team, I personally wouldn’t be writing about SpinVox at all.

            Milo

          • http://yiannopoulos.net/ Milo Yiannopoulos

            Hi Ben,

            I think that’s a false dilemma. The most sensible course of action would surely have been to write a post explaining that since James is a SpinVox employee, TRMP has a conflict of interest and will not be reporting on the SpinVox affair. Bang. Done. Who would have accused you of giving SpinVox an easy time?

            I understand the desire to have your say on the SpinVox debacle but in this case I think it’s going to come with consequences. Whatever you write is going to be written off as either overly favourable or overly critical anyway, so what’s the point?

            To be honest, with James in the team, I personally wouldn’t be writing about SpinVox at all.

            Milo

          • http://yiannopoulos.net/ Milo Yiannopoulos

            Hi Ben,

            I think that’s a false dilemma. The most sensible course of action would surely have been to write a post explaining that since James is a SpinVox employee, TRMP has a conflict of interest and will not be reporting on the SpinVox affair. Bang. Done. Who would have accused you of giving SpinVox an easy time?

            I understand the desire to have your say on the SpinVox debacle but in this case I think it’s going to come with consequences. Whatever you write is going to be written off as either overly favourable or overly critical anyway, so what’s the point?

            To be honest, with James in the team, I personally wouldn’t be writing about SpinVox at all.

            Milo

        • http://benjam.in Ben Smith

          Milo,

          We have a choice - say nothing and be criticised for ‘giving SpinVox an easy time’ or write-up our visit and be criticised for being conflicted. It’s lose-lose.

          Anyone writing about this industry will eventually have the need to write about a friend, colleague or product they have some affiliation with. We have decided to handle this by putting the situation very clearly in the readers’ view and letting them decide it’s value.

          You’re welcome to disagree with this position, but I have not yet been persuaded that silence is a better option or that a 3rd option exists.

          Ben

        • http://benjam.in Ben Smith

          Milo,

          We have a choice - say nothing and be criticised for ‘giving SpinVox an easy time’ or write-up our visit and be criticised for being conflicted. It’s lose-lose.

          Anyone writing about this industry will eventually have the need to write about a friend, colleague or product they have some affiliation with. We have decided to handle this by putting the situation very clearly in the readers’ view and letting them decide it’s value.

          You’re welcome to disagree with this position, but I have not yet been persuaded that silence is a better option or that a 3rd option exists.

          Ben

        • http://benjam.in Ben Smith

          Milo,

          We have a choice - say nothing and be criticised for ‘giving SpinVox an easy time’ or write-up our visit and be criticised for being conflicted. It’s lose-lose.

          Anyone writing about this industry will eventually have the need to write about a friend, colleague or product they have some affiliation with. We have decided to handle this by putting the situation very clearly in the readers’ view and letting them decide it’s value.

          You’re welcome to disagree with this position, but I have not yet been persuaded that silence is a better option or that a 3rd option exists.

          Ben

        • http://invalid.name DanLane

          This depends if you’re talking about an organisation or an individual. The Really Mobile project has a conflict of interest in that James Whatley is a founder and has a direct financial interest in SpinVox.

          I have a conflict of interest in that SpinVox gave me a free review account and some donuts. I have no direct financial interest in SpinVox.

          Really Mobile isn’t a business like TechCrunch, if a founder of TechCrunch has a conflict of interest then it becomes the author of the article’s conflict of interest as they are paid by the person with the COI. Really Mobile is a non-profit (actually it costs us all lots of money) site so I don’t have any direct financial link to James and therefore no financial link to SpinVox.

          But conflicts of interest are more than just about money, you might think I want to protect my friend James’ employer. It might have just been James doing his friendly PR job but I got the impression you and he were friends too. In the car to SpinVox you certainly implied to me that you knew something about James that I didn’t so you must be a better friend of his than me.

          So what are my conflicts of interest? I have no financial connection to SpinVox other than a free account (£5/month value), some marketing freebies (keyring and spinvox mobster) and an acquaintanceship with James which resulted in us starting a blog together.

        • http://invalid.name DanLane

          This depends if you’re talking about an organisation or an individual. The Really Mobile project has a conflict of interest in that James Whatley is a founder and has a direct financial interest in SpinVox.

          I have a conflict of interest in that SpinVox gave me a free review account and some donuts. I have no direct financial interest in SpinVox.

          Really Mobile isn’t a business like TechCrunch, if a founder of TechCrunch has a conflict of interest then it becomes the author of the article’s conflict of interest as they are paid by the person with the COI. Really Mobile is a non-profit (actually it costs us all lots of money) site so I don’t have any direct financial link to James and therefore no financial link to SpinVox.

          But conflicts of interest are more than just about money, you might think I want to protect my friend James’ employer. It might have just been James doing his friendly PR job but I got the impression you and he were friends too. In the car to SpinVox you certainly implied to me that you knew something about James that I didn’t so you must be a better friend of his than me.

          So what are my conflicts of interest? I have no financial connection to SpinVox other than a free account (£5/month value), some marketing freebies (keyring and spinvox mobster) and an acquaintanceship with James which resulted in us starting a blog together.

        • http://invalid.name DanLane

          This depends if you’re talking about an organisation or an individual. The Really Mobile project has a conflict of interest in that James Whatley is a founder and has a direct financial interest in SpinVox.

          I have a conflict of interest in that SpinVox gave me a free review account and some donuts. I have no direct financial interest in SpinVox.

          Really Mobile isn’t a business like TechCrunch, if a founder of TechCrunch has a conflict of interest then it becomes the author of the article’s conflict of interest as they are paid by the person with the COI. Really Mobile is a non-profit (actually it costs us all lots of money) site so I don’t have any direct financial link to James and therefore no financial link to SpinVox.

          But conflicts of interest are more than just about money, you might think I want to protect my friend James’ employer. It might have just been James doing his friendly PR job but I got the impression you and he were friends too. In the car to SpinVox you certainly implied to me that you knew something about James that I didn’t so you must be a better friend of his than me.

          So what are my conflicts of interest? I have no financial connection to SpinVox other than a free account (£5/month value), some marketing freebies (keyring and spinvox mobster) and an acquaintanceship with James which resulted in us starting a blog together.

        • http://invalid.name DanLane

          This depends if you’re talking about an organisation or an individual. The Really Mobile project has a conflict of interest in that James Whatley is a founder and has a direct financial interest in SpinVox.

          I have a conflict of interest in that SpinVox gave me a free review account and some donuts. I have no direct financial interest in SpinVox.

          Really Mobile isn’t a business like TechCrunch, if a founder of TechCrunch has a conflict of interest then it becomes the author of the article’s conflict of interest as they are paid by the person with the COI. Really Mobile is a non-profit (actually it costs us all lots of money) site so I don’t have any direct financial link to James and therefore no financial link to SpinVox.

          But conflicts of interest are more than just about money, you might think I want to protect my friend James’ employer. It might have just been James doing his friendly PR job but I got the impression you and he were friends too. In the car to SpinVox you certainly implied to me that you knew something about James that I didn’t so you must be a better friend of his than me.

          So what are my conflicts of interest? I have no financial connection to SpinVox other than a free account (£5/month value), some marketing freebies (keyring and spinvox mobster) and an acquaintanceship with James which resulted in us starting a blog together.

      • http://yiannopoulos.net/ Milo Yiannopoulos

        But Dan, with respect, “being open” isn’t enough, nor are the caveats you’ve just given.

        As far as I can tell, this is a clear conflict of interest. It simply isn’t true that you have “no personal interest” in presenting anything other than the facts. What you mean is that you have no intention of doing so. But they’re two quite distinct concepts.

        Having good intentions doesn’t excuse you from a conflict of interest: if it did, the concept wouldn’t exist, because anyone with a COI would simply say “Oh, but I’m going to act ethically!” and that would be the end of it.

  • anonymised

    Clearly, The Really Mobile Project has a really major conflict of interest as Mr. Whatley plays no small role in your project and his credibility reflects on your credibility, and so it is not surprising that you’d wait until everyone else chimes in on the SpinVox demo day before declaring your position, or publishing your “background information” that will provide context (i.e.., spin, rationalization) for the negative reaction from others. Good defensive move if you are working for SpinVox, I suppose, but ridiculous (and subject to ridicule) if you are pretending to have some journalistic integrity. The only surprising thing is that you think that you could appear at all objective. Aren’t you just a bit embarrassed?

  • anonymised

    Clearly, The Really Mobile Project has a really major conflict of interest as Mr. Whatley plays no small role in your project and his credibility reflects on your credibility, and so it is not surprising that you’d wait until everyone else chimes in on the SpinVox demo day before declaring your position, or publishing your “background information” that will provide context (i.e.., spin, rationalization) for the negative reaction from others. Good defensive move if you are working for SpinVox, I suppose, but ridiculous (and subject to ridicule) if you are pretending to have some journalistic integrity. The only surprising thing is that you think that you could appear at all objective. Aren’t you just a bit embarrassed?

  • anonymised

    You are a co-founder/co-editor of this online publication with James Whatley. If his reputation is hurt because of the SpinVox controversy, then it reflects poorly on this publication. Therefore, writing about it would be a conflict of interest. Full stop. That’s why you should recuse yourself from participation.

    • http://mobile-review.com markwebster

      To be frank, anyone who has ever accepted a free drink/meal/phone/trip might be regarded as having had their neutrality/integrity compromised, seeing as i don’t know of anyone in this business who falls outside that remit, nothing would be written about anything :)

    • http://mobile-review.com markwebster

      To be frank, anyone who has ever accepted a free drink/meal/phone/trip might be regarded as having had their neutrality/integrity compromised, seeing as i don’t know of anyone in this business who falls outside that remit, nothing would be written about anything :)

    • http://mobile-review.com markwebster

      To be frank, anyone who has ever accepted a free drink/meal/phone/trip might be regarded as having had their neutrality/integrity compromised, seeing as i don’t know of anyone in this business who falls outside that remit, nothing would be written about anything :)

    • http://mobile-review.com markwebster

      To be frank, anyone who has ever accepted a free drink/meal/phone/trip might be regarded as having had their neutrality/integrity compromised, seeing as i don’t know of anyone in this business who falls outside that remit, nothing would be written about anything :)

    • http://mobile-review.com markwebster

      To be frank, anyone who has ever accepted a free drink/meal/phone/trip might be regarded as having had their neutrality/integrity compromised, seeing as i don’t know of anyone in this business who falls outside that remit, nothing would be written about anything :)

  • anonymised

    You are a co-founder/co-editor of this online publication with James Whatley. If his reputation is hurt because of the SpinVox controversy, then it reflects poorly on this publication. Therefore, writing about it would be a conflict of interest. Full stop. That’s why you should recuse yourself from participation.

  • anonymised

    You are a co-founder/co-editor of this online publication with James Whatley. If his reputation is hurt because of the SpinVox controversy, then it reflects poorly on this publication. Therefore, writing about it would be a conflict of interest. Full stop. That’s why you should recuse yourself from participation.

  • Barney

    Lots of comments about conflict of interest, but still no write up! Come on, lets hear what you thought!

  • Barney

    Lots of comments about conflict of interest, but still no write up! Come on, lets hear what you thought!

  • Barney

    Lots of comments about conflict of interest, but still no write up! Come on, lets hear what you thought!

  • Barney

    Lots of comments about conflict of interest, but still no write up! Come on, lets hear what you thought!

  • Barney

    Lots of comments about conflict of interest, but still no write up! Come on, lets hear what you thought!

  • anonymised

    Clearly, The Really Mobile Project has a really major conflict of interest as Mr. Whatley plays no small role in your project and his credibility reflects on your credibility, and so it is not surprising that you'd wait until everyone else chimes in on the SpinVox demo day before declaring your position, or publishing your “background information” that will provide context (i.e.., spin, rationalization) for the negative reaction from others. Good defensive move if you are working for SpinVox, I suppose, but ridiculous (and subject to ridicule) if you are pretending to have some journalistic integrity. The only surprising thing is that you think that you could appear at all objective. Aren't you just a bit embarrassed?

  • anonymised

    Clearly, The Really Mobile Project has a really major conflict of interest as Mr. Whatley plays no small role in your project and his credibility reflects on your credibility, and so it is not surprising that you'd wait until everyone else chimes in on the SpinVox demo day before declaring your position, or publishing your “background information” that will provide context (i.e.., spin, rationalization) for the negative reaction from others. Good defensive move if you are working for SpinVox, I suppose, but ridiculous (and subject to ridicule) if you are pretending to have some journalistic integrity. The only surprising thing is that you think that you could appear at all objective. Aren't you just a bit embarrassed?

  • http://invalid.name DanLane

    We're obviously not embarrassed enough to hide behind anonymity, like you. In fact, we're not embarrassed at all.We've been entirely open about James' involvement with both SpinVox and The Really Mobile Project and have made it perfectly clear that James has no editorial control over our SpinVox coverage which will be written entirely by Ben and myself who have no financial or personal interest in presenting anything other than facts and our own personal opinions.I'd also like to point out that we aren't journalists, we're part-time bloggers who have full time careers in the telecoms industry. This gives us the advantage that we know what we're talking about but obviously conflicts of interest do come up from time to time and we're always up front and honest about them so, hopefully, both our existing community and newcomers to the site have their expectations set accordingly.

  • http://invalid.name DanLane

    We're obviously not embarrassed enough to hide behind anonymity, like you. In fact, we're not embarrassed at all.

    We've been entirely open about James' involvement with both SpinVox and The Really Mobile Project and have made it perfectly clear that James has no editorial control over our SpinVox coverage which will be written entirely by Ben and myself who have no financial or personal interest in presenting anything other than facts and our own personal opinions.

    I'd also like to point out that we aren't journalists, we're part-time bloggers who have full time careers in the telecoms industry. This gives us the advantage that we know what we're talking about but obviously conflicts of interest do come up from time to time and we're always up front and honest about them so, hopefully, both our existing community and newcomers to the site have their expectations set accordingly.

  • http://benjam.in Ben Smith

    I second Dan's comments and simply say this: Wait to read what we have to say. If you think it's biased then, say so and we'll discuss it. At the moment you're accusing us of bias because we both have full-time jobs.

  • http://benjam.in Ben Smith

    I second Dan's comments and simply say this: Wait to read what we have to say. If you think it's biased then, say so and we'll discuss it. At the moment you're accusing us of bias because we both have full-time jobs.

  • anonymised

    No, I am not accusing you of bias because of what you say or because you have full time jobs. I stated the unquestionable fact that the *situation* presents a conflict of interest because of James Whatley's affiliation with both SpinVox and your project. The conflict of interst comes from the fact that negative perceptions of SpinVox and Whatley would reflect poorly on The Really Mobile Project. This conflict of interest situation exists independent of what you write. You can try to be fair, and I personally believe that you want to be fair, but your words and actions cannot change the fact that you have a undeniable conflict of interest by any definition. It is not a matter of financial interest in SpinVox as a company. The conflict of interest comes from issues of credibility, reputation and brand, the currency of social media.As for you words and actions, the fact that you have not yet provided any inkling of your position regarding the demo yesterday does not give this reader the sense that you are the most credible source of information and opinion on the subject. Rather than spend time debating me, why don't you just publish your initial impressions of the demo while the subject is still topical?

  • anonymised

    No, I am not accusing you of bias because of what you say or because you have full time jobs. I stated the unquestionable fact that the *situation* presents a conflict of interest because of James Whatley's affiliation with both SpinVox and your project. The conflict of interst comes from the fact that negative perceptions of SpinVox and Whatley would reflect poorly on The Really Mobile Project. This conflict of interest situation exists independent of what you write. You can try to be fair, and I personally believe that you want to be fair, but your words and actions cannot change the fact that you have a undeniable conflict of interest by any definition. It is not a matter of financial interest in SpinVox as a company. The conflict of interest comes from issues of credibility, reputation and brand, the currency of social media.

    As for you words and actions, the fact that you have not yet provided any inkling of your position regarding the demo yesterday does not give this reader the sense that you are the most credible source of information and opinion on the subject.

    Rather than spend time debating me, why don't you just publish your initial impressions of the demo while the subject is still topical?

  • yiannopoulos

    I have to be honest, guys: I don't see how you can touch this story, given James's position at SpinVox.

  • yiannopoulos

    I have to be honest, guys: I don't see how you can touch this story, given James's position at SpinVox.

  • http://mobile-review.com markwebster

    I did say that the other day (much to Ben's annoyance) :) innocent until proved guilty eh!

  • http://mobile-review.com markwebster

    I did say that the other day (much to Ben's annoyance) :)
    innocent until proved guilty eh!

  • http://yiannopoulos.net/ yiannopoulos

    > innocent until proved guilty eh!Unfortunately, that's not how conflicts of interest work.

  • http://yiannopoulos.net/ yiannopoulos

    > innocent until proved guilty eh!

    Unfortunately, that's not how conflicts of interest work.

  • http://yiannopoulos.net/ yiannopoulos

    But Dan, with respect, “being open” isn't enough, nor are the caveats you've just given.As far as I can tell, this is a clear conflict of interest. It simply isn't true that you have “no personal interest” in presenting anything other than the facts. What you mean is that you have no intention of doing so. But they're two quite distinct concepts.Having good intentions doesn't excuse you from a conflict of interest: if it did, the concept wouldn't exist, because anyone with a COI would simply say “Oh, but I'm going to act ethically!” and that would be the end of it.

  • http://yiannopoulos.net/ yiannopoulos

    But Dan, with respect, “being open” isn't enough, nor are the caveats you've just given.

    As far as I can tell, this is a clear conflict of interest. It simply isn't true that you have “no personal interest” in presenting anything other than the facts. What you mean is that you have no intention of doing so. But they're two quite distinct concepts.

    Having good intentions doesn't excuse you from a conflict of interest: if it did, the concept wouldn't exist, because anyone with a COI would simply say “Oh, but I'm going to act ethically!” and that would be the end of it.

  • http://benjam.in Ben Smith

    Milo,We have a choice - say nothing and be criticised for 'giving SpinVox an easy time' or write-up our visit and be criticised for being conflicted. It's lose-lose.Anyone writing about this industry will eventually have the need to write about a friend, colleague or product they have some affiliation with. We have decided to handle this by putting the situation very clearly in the readers' view and letting them decide it's value.You're welcome to disagree with this position, but I have not yet been persuaded that silence is a better option or that a 3rd option exists.Ben

  • http://benjam.in Ben Smith

    Milo,

    We have a choice - say nothing and be criticised for 'giving SpinVox an easy time' or write-up our visit and be criticised for being conflicted. It's lose-lose.

    Anyone writing about this industry will eventually have the need to write about a friend, colleague or product they have some affiliation with. We have decided to handle this by putting the situation very clearly in the readers' view and letting them decide it's value.

    You're welcome to disagree with this position, but I have not yet been persuaded that silence is a better option or that a 3rd option exists.

    Ben

  • http://yiannopoulos.net/ yiannopoulos

    Hi Ben,I think that's a false dilemma. The most sensible course of action would surely have been to write a post explaining that since James is a SpinVox employee, TRMP has a conflict of interest and will not be reporting on the SpinVox affair. Bang. Done. Who would have accused you of giving SpinVox an easy time?I understand the desire to have your say on the SpinVox debacle but in this case I think it's going to come with consequences. Whatever you write is going to be written off as either overly favourable or overly critical anyway, so what's the point?To be honest, with James in the team, I personally wouldn't be writing about SpinVox at all.Milo

  • http://yiannopoulos.net/ yiannopoulos

    Hi Ben,

    I think that's a false dilemma. The most sensible course of action would surely have been to write a post explaining that since James is a SpinVox employee, TRMP has a conflict of interest and will not be reporting on the SpinVox affair. Bang. Done. Who would have accused you of giving SpinVox an easy time?

    I understand the desire to have your say on the SpinVox debacle but in this case I think it's going to come with consequences. Whatever you write is going to be written off as either overly favourable or overly critical anyway, so what's the point?

    To be honest, with James in the team, I personally wouldn't be writing about SpinVox at all.

    Milo

  • http://invalid.name DanLane

    This depends if you're talking about an organisation or an individual. The Really Mobile project has a conflict of interest in that James Whatley is a founder and has a direct financial interest in SpinVox.I have a conflict of interest in that SpinVox gave me a free review account and some donuts. I have no direct financial interest in SpinVox.Really Mobile isn't a business like TechCrunch, if a founder of TechCrunch has a conflict of interest then it becomes the author of the article's conflict of interest as they are paid by the person with the COI. Really Mobile is a non-profit (actually it costs us all lots of money) site so I don't have any direct financial link to James and therefore no financial link to SpinVox.But conflicts of interest are more than just about money, you might think I want to protect my friend James' employer. It might have just been James doing his friendly PR job but I got the impression you and he were friends too. In the car to SpinVox you certainly implied to me that you knew something about James that I didn't so you must be a better friend of his than me.So what are my conflicts of interest? I have no financial connection to SpinVox other than a free account (£5/month value), some marketing freebies (keyring and spinvox mobster) and an acquaintanceship with James which resulted in us starting a blog together.

  • http://invalid.name DanLane

    This depends if you're talking about an organisation or an individual. The Really Mobile project has a conflict of interest in that James Whatley is a founder and has a direct financial interest in SpinVox.

    I have a conflict of interest in that SpinVox gave me a free review account and some donuts. I have no direct financial interest in SpinVox.

    Really Mobile isn't a business like TechCrunch, if a founder of TechCrunch has a conflict of interest then it becomes the author of the article's conflict of interest as they are paid by the person with the COI. Really Mobile is a non-profit (actually it costs us all lots of money) site so I don't have any direct financial link to James and therefore no financial link to SpinVox.

    But conflicts of interest are more than just about money, you might think I want to protect my friend James' employer. It might have just been James doing his friendly PR job but I got the impression you and he were friends too. In the car to SpinVox you certainly implied to me that you knew something about James that I didn't so you must be a better friend of his than me.

    So what are my conflicts of interest? I have no financial connection to SpinVox other than a free account (£5/month value), some marketing freebies (keyring and spinvox mobster) and an acquaintanceship with James which resulted in us starting a blog together.

  • anonymised

    You are a co-founder/co-editor of this online publication with James Whatley. If his reputation is hurt because of the SpinVox controversy, then it reflects poorly on this publication. Therefore, writing about it would be a conflict of interest. Full stop. That's why you should recuse yourself from participation.

  • anonymised

    You are a co-founder/co-editor of this online publication with James Whatley. If his reputation is hurt because of the SpinVox controversy, then it reflects poorly on this publication. Therefore, writing about it would be a conflict of interest. Full stop. That's why you should recuse yourself from participation.

  • Barney

    Lots of comments about conflict of interest, but still no write up! Come on, lets hear what you thought!

  • Barney

    Lots of comments about conflict of interest, but still no write up! Come on, lets hear what you thought!

  • http://mobile-review.com markwebster

    To be frank, anyone who has ever accepted a free drink/meal/phone/trip might be regarded as having had their neutrality/integrity compromised, seeing as i don't know of anyone in this business who falls outside that remit, nothing would be written about anything :)

  • http://mobile-review.com markwebster

    To be frank, anyone who has ever accepted a free drink/meal/phone/trip might be regarded as having had their neutrality/integrity compromised, seeing as i don't know of anyone in this business who falls outside that remit, nothing would be written about anything :)

  • http://yiannopoulos.net/ yiannopoulos

    Nope, I don't think it does depend. But this conversation is getting dull: when are we going to see your post?

  • http://yiannopoulos.net/ yiannopoulos

    Nope, I don't think it does depend. But this conversation is getting dull: when are we going to see your post?

  • http://benjam.in Ben Smith
  • http://benjam.in Ben Smith
  • http://benjam.in Ben Smith
  • http://benjam.in Ben Smith

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