SpinVox: Demo Day

by Ben Smith on 5th August 2009

spinvox_logo1Along with a number of other bloggers and ‘proper’ journalists we went to SpinVox HQ in Marlow yesterday to get ‘hands on’ and ‘see for ourselves’. The session - initially planned to run for an hour - wrapped up after around 90 minutes with the arrival of a second group who were to see the same presentation.

Please see this post for information about The Really Mobile Project co-founder James Whatley’s position with SpinVox and his current leave-of-absence from The Really Mobile Project. We have made a detailed disclosure statement in this post. If you are concerned this post is affected by a conflict of interest for the authors, other coverage of the session Ben and Dan attended is available from Techcrunch UK and The Register.

We’ve included far more detail below, but for the attention-deficit crowd here are the key points:

  1. The presentation and demo made no attempt to address the most serious allegations against SpinVox.
  2. The demo, even under controlled circumstances, failed to demonstrate anything more than very basic automated transcription. Most messages went to the human transcriber, whole.
  3. The system we saw showed a ‘build date’ of 29th July so may not be one that has transcribed many (if any) real customers’ messages.

SpinVox, to us, looks to have developed a very competent tool to assist human transcribers. Nothing we were shown convinced us the automatic speech recognition added much benefit at all.

We are amazed they believed this demonstration would support their claims and even more amazed they chose only to focus on the technical.

The longer version…

The event had been billed as a technical demonstration and we felt increasingly uneasy as we chatted in the taxi there. Having drawn-up a list of questions from readers and other coverage, very few of the key issues really related to ‘how it works’. Far larger concerns were security, scalability, the state of the business and - crucially - the question ‘why has this happened?’ In a world of disgruntled ex-employees and aggressive competitors, why was SpinVox the one landing all the negative press in some of the largest mainstream media?

What did we see?

Presenting, Rob Wheatley the CIO, placed a significant emphasis on the level of detail he was about to share with us. It was, he said, more than had ever been released outside of an NDA - we shouldn’t take pictures of the slides or record the session. We didn’t, but I’m at a loss as to why this restriction was applied - it served only to make collecting an accurate record of what happen more difficult…

The session that followed described the problem for voice-to-text services: People produce high quality output, but are expensive and slow. Computers produce low quality output, but are cheap and fast. It was, Rob said, SpinVox’s unique approach to blending the two that was key: “No one else can do this at this scale”. Later he explained that there were significant benefits from specialising in the ‘voicemail domain’ - it provided a common type of speech and message. With over 130 million messages converted to-date, this provided a huge ‘corpus’ for the system to draw on.

What followed was a high level summary of the logical components of the SpinVox solution - from the initial Digital Signal Processing, through Automatic Speech Recognition, Quality Checking, language recognition, improvement by a human operator and the presentation of the text output. Interesting, but little you couldn’t have guessed at… almost entirely reproducible if you’ve read the public patents.

Focusing on the human-assisted element, he introduced ‘Tenzing’ - the call centre operator’s application to correct or replace text the system is not confident in. During automatic recognition a map of probable word options is generated and the highest probability text is passed to the human transcriber. As the transcriber reviews the message they over-type incorrect words. If these match lower-probability options on the map, the surrounding words are also replaced with that alternate ‘path’. A general set of language rules also offer word and phrase suggestions based on the surrounding words as the operator types - appearing similar to predictive text. Only as much of the message as needed assistance, we were told, would be sent to the human transcriber (hold that thought… more on that in a minute).

What we didn’t see

After a long time on the Powerpoint, we moved onto the demo. Using a test system, the projector displayed a continuously-updating view of what it was doing, logging each step after receiving message. Strangely, some of the steps were repeatedly displayed in the wrong order which seemed odd for a demonstration trying to convince us it wasn’t faked. On the desks SpinVox employees showed the resulting e-mails and the Tenzing application on two laptops.

The first two messages were recorded by Rob and were processed by the system in seconds - the screens showed the processing steps as they went. He then offered us his Blackberry and Dan Lane recorded a message - it was transcribed in a about 6 seconds, making one mistake as it replaced ‘steak’ with ‘state’. I can’t prove it, but I do believe it was automatic - the message completely processed in less than the duration of the message and the on-screen log presented matching, timed steps during.

Next Milo Yiannopoulos from Techcrunch tried, leaving a fast message including his name, the word ‘Techcrunch’ and a telephone number. After a longer delay, the message arrived at transcriber’s laptop, unrecognisable. The operator listened to it several times scrolling back and forth through the entire audio of the message, eventually writing all of the message by hand and settling on ‘Ianopolis(?)’ as his name. The outcome was passable, but entirely human transcribed. The operator would typically, not attempt more than 3 ‘listens’ to a phrase Rob suggested.

SpinVox staff then left a variety of messages, varying complexity. Although not as simple as Rob’s original messages they felt realistic in content and pace… the room was mostly quiet with occasional conversation in the background - very generous testing conditions. The vast majority of the messages I observed where passed to the human operator from then on. Of those referred, some contained correctly recognised elements, but all needed significant changes.

We observed that when messages required human intervention they were being passed to the human transcriber in their entirety (albeit, without the caller or recipient’s number) - at odds with previous claims - and asked about SpinVox’s assertion that only the parts of a message needing assistance would be referred to a person. Several attempts to demonstrate this were made, but only in one case did it appear that an initial ‘hello’ had been omitted - the remainder of the message (and all of the real content of the message) was passed to the employee.

During the demonstration, we noticed that the Tenzing application looked similar, but different to the screen-shot previously leaked on Facebook. In the top left-hand corner of the application, was shown the version number:

3.0.1 U 20090729

Later we realised what the second number showed… It seems the version we saw may have been created only a week ago. Far from conclusive proof, but a worrying suggestion that at least part of what we were being shown was not the same technology that had been converting customers’ messages…

The rest of the questions…

CEO Christina Domecq interrupted proceedings briefly, inviting one question which she used to confirm £15m funding from existing investors and to repeat her previous claim that she expects positive cashflow and to scale from 30 million to 100 million users within 90 days. She rejected a claim that the firm was spending £3.5m a month, but refused to say what the figure currently was.

Aside from this there was little time for questions away from the technology. We clarified that call centre staff work on secure ‘locked down’ workstations without working USB ports or internet browsers and that staff were background-checked prior to working on SpinVox’s systems. They’re also required to hand-in their own mobile phones before starting work.

No-one knew if the audio and images posted on Facebook, allegedly by an Egyptian call centre during a training and assessment period, were real customers’ data. We were told it was training data, but no immediate confirmation that customers’ old messages were not used for training was available (SpinVox’s PR team are checking the answer).

SpinVox have previously claimed they retain voicemail data for 90 days before removing it and we queried how this related to the use of stored messages to ‘train’ the system. Rob told us the retention length varied depending on the deals in place with each operator. However, he was unable to tell us how long messages left for direct Spinvox customers were held - this seemed odd given the people present included the most senior responsible for developing and managing the system.

We confirmed that whilst SpinVox holds an ISO27001 security accreditation this covers only their own business and interactions with the 3rd party call centres - these suppliers are not themselves accredited, although SpinVox carry out their own inspections.

We were told that SpinVox actually holds 18 patents, although only 2 of these have been published publicly, suggesting the other 16 have only recently been granted. They have a further 71 pending, but claimed they did not intend to patent all of the innovations they had developed.

A number of senior SpinVox staff claim their own voicemail messages are 100% machine converted. This is true, but only because they are using a prototype system designed to prove that messages can be transcribed without human assistance. We weren’t given any indication that SpinVox intend to offer this system to the public or any details on the quality of the transcription produced.

Our conclusion?

That the system appears to refer all but the most basic messages to transcribers and these messages are reviewed in their entirety with few exceptions. If you see a word followed by a question mark or three underscores (meaning ‘inaudible’ or ‘incomprehensible’), these have been produced by a person. SpinVox’s explanation that the database of British-English messages they have to ‘teach’ the system with is the lowest of all those they offer due to the lack of UK carrier deals is may explain the high referral rate, but also indicates this is representative of live operation for UK customers. Previous coverage quoting figures such as 97% accuracy must now be view in the light of significant human intervention.

The most serious allegations about SpinVox remain unanswered and we are dubious that some of the technology we saw is the same as that serving customers today.

Ben Smith & Dan Lane

  • http://johnacraft.com/2009/07/31/still-spinning/ Still Spinning

    [...] Update: yesterday’s demonstration did not go well. [...]

  • http://mobile-review.com markwebster

    Good work Ben and Dan, very fair summation, critical, yet lacking the spite i have seen elsewhere.
    All one can say is it’s not looking good for Spinvox is it!

  • http://mobile-review.com markwebster

    Good work Ben and Dan, very fair summation, critical, yet lacking the spite i have seen elsewhere.
    All one can say is it’s not looking good for Spinvox is it!

  • http://mobile-review.com markwebster

    Good work Ben and Dan, very fair summation, critical, yet lacking the spite i have seen elsewhere.
    All one can say is it’s not looking good for Spinvox is it!

  • http://mobile-review.com markwebster

    Good work Ben and Dan, very fair summation, critical, yet lacking the spite i have seen elsewhere.
    All one can say is it’s not looking good for Spinvox is it!

  • http://patphelan.net Pat Phelan

    Ben/Dan
    A very fair post, probably the best post on the whole matter.
    Well done to both of you.

  • http://patphelan.net Pat Phelan

    Ben/Dan
    A very fair post, probably the best post on the whole matter.
    Well done to both of you.

  • http://patphelan.net Pat Phelan

    Ben/Dan
    A very fair post, probably the best post on the whole matter.
    Well done to both of you.

  • http://patphelan.net Pat Phelan

    Ben/Dan
    A very fair post, probably the best post on the whole matter.
    Well done to both of you.

  • http://patphelan.net Pat Phelan

    Ben/Dan
    A very fair post, probably the best post on the whole matter.
    Well done to both of you.

  • http://benjam.in Ben Smith

    Thankyou Pat - that’s much appreciated. We’ve taken some extra time to compare notes and produce a view we’re confident in. I hope readers find it useful.

  • http://benjam.in Ben Smith

    Thankyou Pat - that’s much appreciated. We’ve taken some extra time to compare notes and produce a view we’re confident in. I hope readers find it useful.

  • http://benjam.in Ben Smith

    Thankyou Pat - that’s much appreciated. We’ve taken some extra time to compare notes and produce a view we’re confident in. I hope readers find it useful.

  • http://benjam.in Ben Smith

    Thankyou Pat - that’s much appreciated. We’ve taken some extra time to compare notes and produce a view we’re confident in. I hope readers find it useful.

  • http://benjam.in Ben Smith

    Thankyou Pat - that’s much appreciated. We’ve taken some extra time to compare notes and produce a view we’re confident in. I hope readers find it useful.

  • http://benjam.in Ben Smith

    The irony is - per today’s Register post - if they were just open and addressed the non-technical issues few would mind. However it works, it works and Tenzing may even have value to other markets (he says speculating wildly).

  • http://benjam.in Ben Smith

    The irony is - per today’s Register post - if they were just open and addressed the non-technical issues few would mind. However it works, it works and Tenzing may even have value to other markets (he says speculating wildly).

  • http://benjam.in Ben Smith

    The irony is - per today’s Register post - if they were just open and addressed the non-technical issues few would mind. However it works, it works and Tenzing may even have value to other markets (he says speculating wildly).

  • http://benjam.in Ben Smith

    The irony is - per today’s Register post - if they were just open and addressed the non-technical issues few would mind. However it works, it works and Tenzing may even have value to other markets (he says speculating wildly).

  • http://benjam.in Ben Smith

    The irony is - per today’s Register post - if they were just open and addressed the non-technical issues few would mind. However it works, it works and Tenzing may even have value to other markets (he says speculating wildly).

  • Mike42

    They let you take notepaper and pens? I’m surprised they let you take your hands and eyes in ;-)

  • Mike42

    They let you take notepaper and pens? I’m surprised they let you take your hands and eyes in ;-)

  • Mike42

    They let you take notepaper and pens? I’m surprised they let you take your hands and eyes in ;-)

  • Mike42

    They let you take notepaper and pens? I’m surprised they let you take your hands and eyes in ;-)

  • Mike42

    They let you take notepaper and pens? I’m surprised they let you take your hands and eyes in ;-)

  • http://benjam.in Ben Smith

    Mont Blanc and Moleskin… that’s how I roll.

  • http://benjam.in Ben Smith

    Mont Blanc and Moleskin… that’s how I roll.

  • http://benjam.in Ben Smith

    Mont Blanc and Moleskin… that’s how I roll.

  • http://benjam.in Ben Smith

    Mont Blanc and Moleskin… that’s how I roll.

  • anonymous

    Good report. I had been skeptical of what you would write, given the conflict of interest and friendship with James Whatley. This strikes me as fair and useful reporting. Thank you.

    As for the view that “if they were just open and addressed the non-technical issues few would mind,” I think that SpinVox may possibly have been caught in a conflict between different audiences requiring different communications strategies (in the face of the what now appears to be the reality that they likely could not automagically convert 98 per cent of messages).

    Users would probably be fine with knowing about high level of human involvement, and may actually prefer it if it offers high quality (although callers probably should be warned before depositing sensitive private messages).

    Mobile ntwk operators and investers, on the other hand, would probably have the opposite reaction to news of high level of human intervention, because they have an interest in the profitability and sustainability of the business model and investors usually look for unique, IP protected and difficult-to-match advantages. Technology geeks (including techie journos and bloggers) are yet a different audience, looking for technological innovation and wouldn’t have given SpinVox as much attention without the gee-wiz technology claims.

    So when you say “few would mind” we need to speficy WHO would mind knowing WHAT.

  • anonymous

    Good report. I had been skeptical of what you would write, given the conflict of interest and friendship with James Whatley. This strikes me as fair and useful reporting. Thank you.

    As for the view that “if they were just open and addressed the non-technical issues few would mind,” I think that SpinVox may possibly have been caught in a conflict between different audiences requiring different communications strategies (in the face of the what now appears to be the reality that they likely could not automagically convert 98 per cent of messages).

    Users would probably be fine with knowing about high level of human involvement, and may actually prefer it if it offers high quality (although callers probably should be warned before depositing sensitive private messages).

    Mobile ntwk operators and investers, on the other hand, would probably have the opposite reaction to news of high level of human intervention, because they have an interest in the profitability and sustainability of the business model and investors usually look for unique, IP protected and difficult-to-match advantages. Technology geeks (including techie journos and bloggers) are yet a different audience, looking for technological innovation and wouldn’t have given SpinVox as much attention without the gee-wiz technology claims.

    So when you say “few would mind” we need to speficy WHO would mind knowing WHAT.

  • anonymous

    Good report. I had been skeptical of what you would write, given the conflict of interest and friendship with James Whatley. This strikes me as fair and useful reporting. Thank you.

    As for the view that “if they were just open and addressed the non-technical issues few would mind,” I think that SpinVox may possibly have been caught in a conflict between different audiences requiring different communications strategies (in the face of the what now appears to be the reality that they likely could not automagically convert 98 per cent of messages).

    Users would probably be fine with knowing about high level of human involvement, and may actually prefer it if it offers high quality (although callers probably should be warned before depositing sensitive private messages).

    Mobile ntwk operators and investers, on the other hand, would probably have the opposite reaction to news of high level of human intervention, because they have an interest in the profitability and sustainability of the business model and investors usually look for unique, IP protected and difficult-to-match advantages. Technology geeks (including techie journos and bloggers) are yet a different audience, looking for technological innovation and wouldn’t have given SpinVox as much attention without the gee-wiz technology claims.

    So when you say “few would mind” we need to speficy WHO would mind knowing WHAT.

  • anonymous

    Good report. I had been skeptical of what you would write, given the conflict of interest and friendship with James Whatley. This strikes me as fair and useful reporting. Thank you.

    As for the view that “if they were just open and addressed the non-technical issues few would mind,” I think that SpinVox may possibly have been caught in a conflict between different audiences requiring different communications strategies (in the face of the what now appears to be the reality that they likely could not automagically convert 98 per cent of messages).

    Users would probably be fine with knowing about high level of human involvement, and may actually prefer it if it offers high quality (although callers probably should be warned before depositing sensitive private messages).

    Mobile ntwk operators and investers, on the other hand, would probably have the opposite reaction to news of high level of human intervention, because they have an interest in the profitability and sustainability of the business model and investors usually look for unique, IP protected and difficult-to-match advantages. Technology geeks (including techie journos and bloggers) are yet a different audience, looking for technological innovation and wouldn’t have given SpinVox as much attention without the gee-wiz technology claims.

    So when you say “few would mind” we need to speficy WHO would mind knowing WHAT.

  • http://www.mobileindustryreview.com Ewan

    Very comprehensive and very enlightening Ben & Dan. Deary me.

  • http://www.mobileindustryreview.com Ewan

    Very comprehensive and very enlightening Ben & Dan. Deary me.

  • http://www.mobileindustryreview.com Ewan

    Very comprehensive and very enlightening Ben & Dan. Deary me.

  • http://mobile-review.com markwebster

    Good work Ben and Dan, very fair summation, critical, yet lacking the spite i have seen elsewhere.All one can say is it's not looking good for Spinvox is it!

  • http://mobile-review.com markwebster

    Good work Ben and Dan, very fair summation, critical, yet lacking the spite i have seen elsewhere.
    All one can say is it's not looking good for Spinvox is it!

  • patphelan

    Ben/DanA very fair post, probably the best post on the whole matter.Well done to both of you.

  • patphelan

    Ben/Dan
    A very fair post, probably the best post on the whole matter.
    Well done to both of you.

  • http://benjam.in Ben Smith

    Thankyou Pat - that's much appreciated. We've taken some extra time to compare notes and produce a view we're confident in. I hope readers find it useful.

  • http://benjam.in Ben Smith

    Thankyou Pat - that's much appreciated. We've taken some extra time to compare notes and produce a view we're confident in. I hope readers find it useful.

  • http://benjam.in Ben Smith

    The irony is - per today's Register post - if they were just open and addressed the non-technical issues few would mind. However it works, it works and Tenzing may even have value to other markets (he says speculating wildly).

  • http://benjam.in Ben Smith

    The irony is - per today's Register post - if they were just open and addressed the non-technical issues few would mind. However it works, it works and Tenzing may even have value to other markets (he says speculating wildly).

  • Mike42

    They let you take notepaper and pens? I'm surprised they let you take your hands and eyes in ;-)

  • Mike42

    They let you take notepaper and pens? I'm surprised they let you take your hands and eyes in ;-)

  • http://benjam.in Ben Smith

    Mont Blanc and Moleskin… that's how I roll.

  • http://benjam.in Ben Smith

    Mont Blanc and Moleskin… that's how I roll.

  • anonymous

    Good report. I had been skeptical of what you would write, given the conflict of interest and friendship with James Whatley. This strikes me as fair and useful reporting. Thank you.As for the view that “if they were just open and addressed the non-technical issues few would mind,” I think that SpinVox may possibly have been caught in a conflict between different audiences requiring different communications strategies (in the face of the what now appears to be the reality that they likely could not automagically convert 98 per cent of messages). Users would probably be fine with knowing about high level of human involvement, and may actually prefer it if it offers high quality (although callers probably should be warned before depositing sensitive private messages). Mobile ntwk operators and investers, on the other hand, would probably have the opposite reaction to news of high level of human intervention, because they have an interest in the profitability and sustainability of the business model and investors usually look for unique, IP protected and difficult-to-match advantages. Technology geeks (including techie journos and bloggers) are yet a different audience, looking for technological innovation and wouldn't have given SpinVox as much attention without the gee-wiz technology claims.So when you say “few would mind” we need to speficy WHO would mind knowing WHAT.

  • anonymous

    Good report. I had been skeptical of what you would write, given the conflict of interest and friendship with James Whatley. This strikes me as fair and useful reporting. Thank you.

    As for the view that “if they were just open and addressed the non-technical issues few would mind,” I think that SpinVox may possibly have been caught in a conflict between different audiences requiring different communications strategies (in the face of the what now appears to be the reality that they likely could not automagically convert 98 per cent of messages).

    Users would probably be fine with knowing about high level of human involvement, and may actually prefer it if it offers high quality (although callers probably should be warned before depositing sensitive private messages).

    Mobile ntwk operators and investers, on the other hand, would probably have the opposite reaction to news of high level of human intervention, because they have an interest in the profitability and sustainability of the business model and investors usually look for unique, IP protected and difficult-to-match advantages. Technology geeks (including techie journos and bloggers) are yet a different audience, looking for technological innovation and wouldn't have given SpinVox as much attention without the gee-wiz technology claims.

    So when you say “few would mind” we need to speficy WHO would mind knowing WHAT.

  • Mike42

    …so are you going into Vox Sciences too?

    ;-)

  • Mike42

    …so are you going into Vox Sciences too?

    ;-)

  • Mike42

    …so are you going into Vox Sciences too?

    ;-)

  • Mike42

    …so are you going into Vox Sciences too?

    ;-)

  • steorn

    FEW WOULD MIND….

    Strange to think that only little more than a month ago, Daniel Doulton co-founder, chief technologist, and Chief Strategy Officer, was front and center hyping SpinVox at the forefront of automated speaker-independent speech recognition, whiich he claimed was a $80 billion market. Where are those claims now? Where is Daniel Doulton now?

    http://digital.venturebeat.com/2009/06/22/voice-to-text-startup-spinvox-inks-100m-deal-with-telefonica/

    SpinVox now looks to some people more like a huge, and perhaps highly efficient, call centre operation than a automated auto speech reco technology engine/innovation. The key point is that investors apply a very different valuation multiple to the former versus the latter.

    That explains why “FEW WOULD MIND” if SpinVox turned out to be a MechanicalTurk — but the FEW who mind most are probably the FEW private equity investors and they might mind quite a lot!!

    That’s probably why Daniel Doulton, also know as DD, is strangely absent from the scene, and not out talking about his baby, D2, “the brain” described at http://www.spinvox.com/how_it_works.html

  • steorn

    FEW WOULD MIND….

    Strange to think that only little more than a month ago, Daniel Doulton co-founder, chief technologist, and Chief Strategy Officer, was front and center hyping SpinVox at the forefront of automated speaker-independent speech recognition, whiich he claimed was a $80 billion market. Where are those claims now? Where is Daniel Doulton now?

    http://digital.venturebeat.com/2009/06/22/voice-to-text-startup-spinvox-inks-100m-deal-with-telefonica/

    SpinVox now looks to some people more like a huge, and perhaps highly efficient, call centre operation than a automated auto speech reco technology engine/innovation. The key point is that investors apply a very different valuation multiple to the former versus the latter.

    That explains why “FEW WOULD MIND” if SpinVox turned out to be a MechanicalTurk — but the FEW who mind most are probably the FEW private equity investors and they might mind quite a lot!!

    That’s probably why Daniel Doulton, also know as DD, is strangely absent from the scene, and not out talking about his baby, D2, “the brain” described at http://www.spinvox.com/how_it_works.html

  • steorn

    FEW WOULD MIND….

    Strange to think that only little more than a month ago, Daniel Doulton co-founder, chief technologist, and Chief Strategy Officer, was front and center hyping SpinVox at the forefront of automated speaker-independent speech recognition, whiich he claimed was a $80 billion market. Where are those claims now? Where is Daniel Doulton now?

    http://digital.venturebeat.com/2009/06/22/voice-to-text-startup-spinvox-inks-100m-deal-with-telefonica/

    SpinVox now looks to some people more like a huge, and perhaps highly efficient, call centre operation than a automated auto speech reco technology engine/innovation. The key point is that investors apply a very different valuation multiple to the former versus the latter.

    That explains why “FEW WOULD MIND” if SpinVox turned out to be a MechanicalTurk — but the FEW who mind most are probably the FEW private equity investors and they might mind quite a lot!!

    That’s probably why Daniel Doulton, also know as DD, is strangely absent from the scene, and not out talking about his baby, D2, “the brain” described at http://www.spinvox.com/how_it_works.html

  • steorn

    FEW WOULD MIND….

    Strange to think that only little more than a month ago, Daniel Doulton co-founder, chief technologist, and Chief Strategy Officer, was front and center hyping SpinVox at the forefront of automated speaker-independent speech recognition, whiich he claimed was a $80 billion market. Where are those claims now? Where is Daniel Doulton now?

    http://digital.venturebeat.com/2009/06/22/voice-to-text-startup-spinvox-inks-100m-deal-with-telefonica/

    SpinVox now looks to some people more like a huge, and perhaps highly efficient, call centre operation than a automated auto speech reco technology engine/innovation. The key point is that investors apply a very different valuation multiple to the former versus the latter.

    That explains why “FEW WOULD MIND” if SpinVox turned out to be a MechanicalTurk — but the FEW who mind most are probably the FEW private equity investors and they might mind quite a lot!!

    That’s probably why Daniel Doulton, also know as DD, is strangely absent from the scene, and not out talking about his baby, D2, “the brain” described at http://www.spinvox.com/how_it_works.html

  • http://www.mobileindustryreview.com Ewan

    Very comprehensive and very enlightening Ben & Dan. Deary me.

  • http://www.mobileindustryreview.com Ewan

    Very comprehensive and very enlightening Ben & Dan. Deary me.

  • http://www.kcjhdesign.co.uk Kip Hakes

    Yes, brilliant post, I was slightly concerned how this one would be handled, but it’s great to see that you’ve summed it all up well (perhaps lacking the venom seen elsewhere!) Not really sure where this leaves Spinvox now to be honest, as they’ve come out of this looking like liars, and nobody likes a liar.. Time will tell

  • http://www.kcjhdesign.co.uk Kip Hakes

    Yes, brilliant post, I was slightly concerned how this one would be handled, but it’s great to see that you’ve summed it all up well (perhaps lacking the venom seen elsewhere!) Not really sure where this leaves Spinvox now to be honest, as they’ve come out of this looking like liars, and nobody likes a liar.. Time will tell

  • http://www.kcjhdesign.co.uk Kip Hakes

    Yes, brilliant post, I was slightly concerned how this one would be handled, but it’s great to see that you’ve summed it all up well (perhaps lacking the venom seen elsewhere!) Not really sure where this leaves Spinvox now to be honest, as they’ve come out of this looking like liars, and nobody likes a liar.. Time will tell

  • http://www.kcjhdesign.co.uk Kip Hakes

    Yes, brilliant post, I was slightly concerned how this one would be handled, but it’s great to see that you’ve summed it all up well (perhaps lacking the venom seen elsewhere!) Not really sure where this leaves Spinvox now to be honest, as they’ve come out of this looking like liars, and nobody likes a liar.. Time will tell

  • http://www.kcjhdesign.co.uk Kip Hakes

    Yes, brilliant post, I was slightly concerned how this one would be handled, but it’s great to see that you’ve summed it all up well (perhaps lacking the venom seen elsewhere!) Not really sure where this leaves Spinvox now to be honest, as they’ve come out of this looking like liars, and nobody likes a liar.. Time will tell

  • http://thereallymobileproject.com/ Really Mobile

    We are testing their product and have spoken to their management team.

  • http://thereallymobileproject.com/ Really Mobile

    We are testing their product and have spoken to their management team.

  • http://thereallymobileproject.com/ Really Mobile

    We are testing their product and have spoken to their management team.

  • http://thereallymobileproject.com/ Really Mobile

    We are testing their product and have spoken to their management team.

  • http://thereallymobileproject.com/ Really Mobile

    We are testing their product and have spoken to their management team.

  • http://benjam.in Ben Smith

    I was told by SpinVox’s PR that Daniel Doulton was unable to
    participate on Tuesday as he would be on paternity leave. I expect
    that may explain his recent silence.

  • http://benjam.in Ben Smith

    I was told by SpinVox’s PR that Daniel Doulton was unable to
    participate on Tuesday as he would be on paternity leave. I expect
    that may explain his recent silence.

  • http://benjam.in Ben Smith

    I was told by SpinVox’s PR that Daniel Doulton was unable to
    participate on Tuesday as he would be on paternity leave. I expect
    that may explain his recent silence.

  • http://benjam.in Ben Smith

    I was told by SpinVox’s PR that Daniel Doulton was unable to
    participate on Tuesday as he would be on paternity leave. I expect
    that may explain his recent silence.

  • http://benjam.in Ben Smith

    I was told by SpinVox’s PR that Daniel Doulton was unable to
    participate on Tuesday as he would be on paternity leave. I expect
    that may explain his recent silence.

  • http://twitter.com/nuxnix Angus Fox

    Dont patents become public once they are filed? It should be possible to see all of them.

    Really good report. It strikes me that the steps in the wrong order, and the perfect demo message mean that this was pre-scripted.

    I love my Spinvox system, and Im glad to hear that it works more or less as I hypothesised with the (?) and the ____ - but its worrying to me that the whole message is assembled for a human.

  • http://twitter.com/nuxnix Angus Fox

    Dont patents become public once they are filed? It should be possible to see all of them.

    Really good report. It strikes me that the steps in the wrong order, and the perfect demo message mean that this was pre-scripted.

    I love my Spinvox system, and Im glad to hear that it works more or less as I hypothesised with the (?) and the ____ - but its worrying to me that the whole message is assembled for a human.

  • http://twitter.com/nuxnix Angus Fox

    Dont patents become public once they are filed? It should be possible to see all of them.

    Really good report. It strikes me that the steps in the wrong order, and the perfect demo message mean that this was pre-scripted.

    I love my Spinvox system, and Im glad to hear that it works more or less as I hypothesised with the (?) and the ____ - but its worrying to me that the whole message is assembled for a human.

  • http://twitter.com/nuxnix Angus Fox

    Dont patents become public once they are filed? It should be possible to see all of them.

    Really good report. It strikes me that the steps in the wrong order, and the perfect demo message mean that this was pre-scripted.

    I love my Spinvox system, and Im glad to hear that it works more or less as I hypothesised with the (?) and the ____ - but its worrying to me that the whole message is assembled for a human.

  • http://twitter.com/DominicTravers dominictravers

    Great balance, thank you gentlemen.

  • http://twitter.com/DominicTravers dominictravers

    Great balance, thank you gentlemen.

  • http://twitter.com/DominicTravers dominictravers

    Great balance, thank you gentlemen.

  • http://twitter.com/DominicTravers dominictravers

    Great balance, thank you gentlemen.

  • http://benjam.in Ben Smith

    re: patents. Not *immediately*, hence our assessment they had only very recently been granted.

  • http://benjam.in Ben Smith

    re: patents. Not *immediately*, hence our assessment they had only very recently been granted.

  • http://benjam.in Ben Smith

    re: patents. Not *immediately*, hence our assessment they had only very recently been granted.

  • http://benjam.in Ben Smith

    re: patents. Not *immediately*, hence our assessment they had only very recently been granted.

  • http://benjam.in Ben Smith

    re: patents. Not *immediately*, hence our assessment they had only very recently been granted.

  • http://benjam.in Ben Smith

    I cannot think of any information SpinVox or their staff has ever presented to me that I now consider to be a lie. However, I do think they use imprecise language at times from which people draw the wrong conclusions - things such as referring to the accuracy of ‘the system’ which includes a human correcting transcriptions, but people assume means just the automated part.

    …it’s the politicians’ skill of answering the question you want to, not always the one that was asked.

  • http://benjam.in Ben Smith

    I cannot think of any information SpinVox or their staff has ever presented to me that I now consider to be a lie. However, I do think they use imprecise language at times from which people draw the wrong conclusions - things such as referring to the accuracy of ‘the system’ which includes a human correcting transcriptions, but people assume means just the automated part.

    …it’s the politicians’ skill of answering the question you want to, not always the one that was asked.

  • http://benjam.in Ben Smith

    I cannot think of any information SpinVox or their staff has ever presented to me that I now consider to be a lie. However, I do think they use imprecise language at times from which people draw the wrong conclusions - things such as referring to the accuracy of ‘the system’ which includes a human correcting transcriptions, but people assume means just the automated part.

    …it’s the politicians’ skill of answering the question you want to, not always the one that was asked.

  • http://benjam.in Ben Smith

    I cannot think of any information SpinVox or their staff has ever presented to me that I now consider to be a lie. However, I do think they use imprecise language at times from which people draw the wrong conclusions - things such as referring to the accuracy of ‘the system’ which includes a human correcting transcriptions, but people assume means just the automated part.

    …it’s the politicians’ skill of answering the question you want to, not always the one that was asked.

  • http://benjam.in Ben Smith

    I cannot think of any information SpinVox or their staff has ever presented to me that I now consider to be a lie. However, I do think they use imprecise language at times from which people draw the wrong conclusions - things such as referring to the accuracy of ‘the system’ which includes a human correcting transcriptions, but people assume means just the automated part.

    …it’s the politicians’ skill of answering the question you want to, not always the one that was asked.

  • http://www.kcjhdesign.co.uk Kip Hakes

    Yes.. I see what you’re saying, but it’s just so frustrating to have so much, well ‘Spin’, I want honesty, not carefully crafted statements dodging the bullets.

  • http://www.kcjhdesign.co.uk Kip Hakes

    Yes.. I see what you’re saying, but it’s just so frustrating to have so much, well ‘Spin’, I want honesty, not carefully crafted statements dodging the bullets.

  • http://www.kcjhdesign.co.uk Kip Hakes

    Yes.. I see what you’re saying, but it’s just so frustrating to have so much, well ‘Spin’, I want honesty, not carefully crafted statements dodging the bullets.

  • http://www.kcjhdesign.co.uk Kip Hakes

    Yes.. I see what you’re saying, but it’s just so frustrating to have so much, well ‘Spin’, I want honesty, not carefully crafted statements dodging the bullets.

  • http://www.kcjhdesign.co.uk Kip Hakes

    Yes.. I see what you’re saying, but it’s just so frustrating to have so much, well ‘Spin’, I want honesty, not carefully crafted statements dodging the bullets.

  • Mike42

    …so are you going into Vox Sciences too? ;-)

  • Mike42

    …so are you going into Vox Sciences too?

    ;-)

  • Come on

    What is the definition of lying at The Really Mobile Project? The following are examples of declarations of fact:

    “the agents in question will only ever hear/see the specific parts of the messages that need work on.” Only. Ever. No ifs ands or buts.

    “’BUT! What about ALL that personal data in each and every voicemail?!’ I hear you cry.. Yes. Well. Any messages that need analysis for further conversion are COMPLETELY anonymised before being sent out of SpinVox data centres to QC houses” Completely anonymised. COMPLETELY.

    “Sounds ridiculous I know, but the key thing here is that we have kick-ass data security standards that, in the entire history of our Voicemail Conversion System (VMCS), have NEVER BEEN BREACHED.” No-one knew if the audio and images posted on Facebook, allegedly by an Egyptian call centre during a training and assessment period, were real customers’ data.

    [emphasis in the original] July 27, 2025 http://blog.spinvox.com/

    No, this is not just Spin – putting information into a more favourable context, attempting to influence perceptions.

    - Edited by a moderator: I don’t want to remove your entire comment, but needed to trim your final line which may have been libellous under English law and for which the site may be held accountable.

  • Come on

    What is the definition of lying at The Really Mobile Project? The following are examples of declarations of fact:

    “the agents in question will only ever hear/see the specific parts of the messages that need work on.” Only. Ever. No ifs ands or buts.

    “’BUT! What about ALL that personal data in each and every voicemail?!’ I hear you cry.. Yes. Well. Any messages that need analysis for further conversion are COMPLETELY anonymised before being sent out of SpinVox data centres to QC houses” Completely anonymised. COMPLETELY.

    “Sounds ridiculous I know, but the key thing here is that we have kick-ass data security standards that, in the entire history of our Voicemail Conversion System (VMCS), have NEVER BEEN BREACHED.” No-one knew if the audio and images posted on Facebook, allegedly by an Egyptian call centre during a training and assessment period, were real customers’ data.

    [emphasis in the original] July 27, 2025 http://blog.spinvox.com/

    No, this is not just Spin – putting information into a more favourable context, attempting to influence perceptions.

    - Edited by a moderator: I don’t want to remove your entire comment, but needed to trim your final line which may have been libellous under English law and for which the site may be held accountable.

  • Come on

    What is the definition of lying at The Really Mobile Project? The following are examples of declarations of fact:

    “the agents in question will only ever hear/see the specific parts of the messages that need work on.” Only. Ever. No ifs ands or buts.

    “’BUT! What about ALL that personal data in each and every voicemail?!’ I hear you cry.. Yes. Well. Any messages that need analysis for further conversion are COMPLETELY anonymised before being sent out of SpinVox data centres to QC houses” Completely anonymised. COMPLETELY.

    “Sounds ridiculous I know, but the key thing here is that we have kick-ass data security standards that, in the entire history of our Voicemail Conversion System (VMCS), have NEVER BEEN BREACHED.” No-one knew if the audio and images posted on Facebook, allegedly by an Egyptian call centre during a training and assessment period, were real customers’ data.

    [emphasis in the original] July 27, 2025 http://blog.spinvox.com/

    No, this is not just Spin – putting information into a more favourable context, attempting to influence perceptions.

    - Edited by a moderator: I don’t want to remove your entire comment, but needed to trim your final line which may have been libellous under English law and for which the site may be held accountable.

  • Come on

    What is the definition of lying at The Really Mobile Project? The following are examples of declarations of fact:

    “the agents in question will only ever hear/see the specific parts of the messages that need work on.” Only. Ever. No ifs ands or buts.

    “’BUT! What about ALL that personal data in each and every voicemail?!’ I hear you cry.. Yes. Well. Any messages that need analysis for further conversion are COMPLETELY anonymised before being sent out of SpinVox data centres to QC houses” Completely anonymised. COMPLETELY.

    “Sounds ridiculous I know, but the key thing here is that we have kick-ass data security standards that, in the entire history of our Voicemail Conversion System (VMCS), have NEVER BEEN BREACHED.” No-one knew if the audio and images posted on Facebook, allegedly by an Egyptian call centre during a training and assessment period, were real customers’ data.

    [emphasis in the original] July 27, 2025 http://blog.spinvox.com/

    No, this is not just Spin – putting information into a more favourable context, attempting to influence perceptions.

    - Edited by a moderator: I don’t want to remove your entire comment, but needed to trim your final line which may have been libellous under English law and for which the site may be held accountable.

  • Come on

    What is the definition of lying at The Really Mobile Project? The following are examples of declarations of fact:

    “the agents in question will only ever hear/see the specific parts of the messages that need work on.” Only. Ever. No ifs ands or buts.

    “’BUT! What about ALL that personal data in each and every voicemail?!’ I hear you cry.. Yes. Well. Any messages that need analysis for further conversion are COMPLETELY anonymised before being sent out of SpinVox data centres to QC houses” Completely anonymised. COMPLETELY.

    “Sounds ridiculous I know, but the key thing here is that we have kick-ass data security standards that, in the entire history of our Voicemail Conversion System (VMCS), have NEVER BEEN BREACHED.” No-one knew if the audio and images posted on Facebook, allegedly by an Egyptian call centre during a training and assessment period, were real customers’ data.

    [emphasis in the original] July 27, 2025 http://blog.spinvox.com/

    No, this is not just Spin – putting information into a more favourable context, attempting to influence perceptions.

    - Edited by a moderator: I don’t want to remove your entire comment, but needed to trim your final line which may have been libellous under English law and for which the site may be held accountable.

  • steorn

    FEW WOULD MIND….Strange to think that only little more than a month ago, Daniel Doulton co-founder, chief technologist, and Chief Strategy Officer, was front and center hyping SpinVox at the forefront of automated speaker-independent speech recognition, whiich he claimed was a $80 billion market. Where are those claims now? Where is Daniel Doulton now?http://digital.venturebeat.com/2009/06/22/voice...SpinVox now looks to some people more like a huge, and perhaps highly efficient, call centre operation than a automated auto speech reco technology engine/innovation. The key point is that investors apply a very different valuation multiple to the former versus the latter. That explains why “FEW WOULD MIND” if SpinVox turned out to be a MechanicalTurk — but the FEW who mind most are probably the FEW private equity investors and they might mind quite a lot!!That's probably why Daniel Doulton, also know as DD, is strangely absent from the scene, and not out talking about his baby, D2, “the brain” described at http://www.spinvox.com/how_it_works.html

  • steorn

    FEW WOULD MIND….

    Strange to think that only little more than a month ago, Daniel Doulton co-founder, chief technologist, and Chief Strategy Officer, was front and center hyping SpinVox at the forefront of automated speaker-independent speech recognition, whiich he claimed was a $80 billion market. Where are those claims now? Where is Daniel Doulton now?

    http://digital.venturebeat.com/2009/06/22/voice...

    SpinVox now looks to some people more like a huge, and perhaps highly efficient, call centre operation than a automated auto speech reco technology engine/innovation. The key point is that investors apply a very different valuation multiple to the former versus the latter.

    That explains why “FEW WOULD MIND” if SpinVox turned out to be a MechanicalTurk — but the FEW who mind most are probably the FEW private equity investors and they might mind quite a lot!!

    That's probably why Daniel Doulton, also know as DD, is strangely absent from the scene, and not out talking about his baby, D2, “the brain” described at http://www.spinvox.com/how_it_works.html

  • http://benjam.in Ben Smith

    But what about this analysis:

    “the agents in question will only ever hear/see the specific parts of the messages that need work on.” …but if the automated system is really bad then all parts of all messages could be said to ‘need work on’.

    “’BUT! What about ALL that personal data in each and every voicemail?!’ I hear you cry.. Yes. Well. Any messages that need analysis for further conversion are COMPLETELY anonymised before being sent out of SpinVox data centres to QC houses” … from what we saw the identity of the caller and recipient are not shown to the human transcriber so it could be said to be anonymised in that respect.

    “Sounds ridiculous I know, but the key thing here is that we have kick-ass data security standards that, in the entire history of our Voicemail Conversion System (VMCS), have NEVER BEEN BREACHED.” …even if the images on Facebook *are* users’ old data, it wasn’t leaked by a breach in the VMCS, but by a leak in their training programme.

    Note: I don’t find these arguments any more convincing or satisfying than I suspect you do… I’m just trying to demonstrate how language can be twisted to mean different things and that even these apparently rock-solid statements leave room for interpretation.

    Now… How about you come out from behind the anonymous veil and let’s have a proper discussion about this? Please?

  • http://benjam.in Ben Smith

    But what about this analysis:

    “the agents in question will only ever hear/see the specific parts of the messages that need work on.” …but if the automated system is really bad then all parts of all messages could be said to ‘need work on’.

    “’BUT! What about ALL that personal data in each and every voicemail?!’ I hear you cry.. Yes. Well. Any messages that need analysis for further conversion are COMPLETELY anonymised before being sent out of SpinVox data centres to QC houses” … from what we saw the identity of the caller and recipient are not shown to the human transcriber so it could be said to be anonymised in that respect.

    “Sounds ridiculous I know, but the key thing here is that we have kick-ass data security standards that, in the entire history of our Voicemail Conversion System (VMCS), have NEVER BEEN BREACHED.” …even if the images on Facebook *are* users’ old data, it wasn’t leaked by a breach in the VMCS, but by a leak in their training programme.

    Note: I don’t find these arguments any more convincing or satisfying than I suspect you do… I’m just trying to demonstrate how language can be twisted to mean different things and that even these apparently rock-solid statements leave room for interpretation.

    Now… How about you come out from behind the anonymous veil and let’s have a proper discussion about this? Please?

  • http://benjam.in Ben Smith

    But what about this analysis:

    “the agents in question will only ever hear/see the specific parts of the messages that need work on.” …but if the automated system is really bad then all parts of all messages could be said to ‘need work on’.

    “’BUT! What about ALL that personal data in each and every voicemail?!’ I hear you cry.. Yes. Well. Any messages that need analysis for further conversion are COMPLETELY anonymised before being sent out of SpinVox data centres to QC houses” … from what we saw the identity of the caller and recipient are not shown to the human transcriber so it could be said to be anonymised in that respect.

    “Sounds ridiculous I know, but the key thing here is that we have kick-ass data security standards that, in the entire history of our Voicemail Conversion System (VMCS), have NEVER BEEN BREACHED.” …even if the images on Facebook *are* users’ old data, it wasn’t leaked by a breach in the VMCS, but by a leak in their training programme.

    Note: I don’t find these arguments any more convincing or satisfying than I suspect you do… I’m just trying to demonstrate how language can be twisted to mean different things and that even these apparently rock-solid statements leave room for interpretation.

    Now… How about you come out from behind the anonymous veil and let’s have a proper discussion about this? Please?

  • http://benjam.in Ben Smith

    But what about this analysis:

    “the agents in question will only ever hear/see the specific parts of the messages that need work on.” …but if the automated system is really bad then all parts of all messages could be said to ‘need work on’.

    “’BUT! What about ALL that personal data in each and every voicemail?!’ I hear you cry.. Yes. Well. Any messages that need analysis for further conversion are COMPLETELY anonymised before being sent out of SpinVox data centres to QC houses” … from what we saw the identity of the caller and recipient are not shown to the human transcriber so it could be said to be anonymised in that respect.

    “Sounds ridiculous I know, but the key thing here is that we have kick-ass data security standards that, in the entire history of our Voicemail Conversion System (VMCS), have NEVER BEEN BREACHED.” …even if the images on Facebook *are* users’ old data, it wasn’t leaked by a breach in the VMCS, but by a leak in their training programme.

    Note: I don’t find these arguments any more convincing or satisfying than I suspect you do… I’m just trying to demonstrate how language can be twisted to mean different things and that even these apparently rock-solid statements leave room for interpretation.

    Now… How about you come out from behind the anonymous veil and let’s have a proper discussion about this? Please?

  • http://benjam.in Ben Smith

    But what about this analysis:

    “the agents in question will only ever hear/see the specific parts of the messages that need work on.” …but if the automated system is really bad then all parts of all messages could be said to ‘need work on’.

    “’BUT! What about ALL that personal data in each and every voicemail?!’ I hear you cry.. Yes. Well. Any messages that need analysis for further conversion are COMPLETELY anonymised before being sent out of SpinVox data centres to QC houses” … from what we saw the identity of the caller and recipient are not shown to the human transcriber so it could be said to be anonymised in that respect.

    “Sounds ridiculous I know, but the key thing here is that we have kick-ass data security standards that, in the entire history of our Voicemail Conversion System (VMCS), have NEVER BEEN BREACHED.” …even if the images on Facebook *are* users’ old data, it wasn’t leaked by a breach in the VMCS, but by a leak in their training programme.

    Note: I don’t find these arguments any more convincing or satisfying than I suspect you do… I’m just trying to demonstrate how language can be twisted to mean different things and that even these apparently rock-solid statements leave room for interpretation.

    Now… How about you come out from behind the anonymous veil and let’s have a proper discussion about this? Please?

  • http://www.kcjhdesign.co.uk Kip Hakes

    Yes, brilliant post, I was slightly concerned how this one would be handled, but it's great to see that you've summed it all up well (perhaps lacking the venom seen elsewhere!) Not really sure where this leaves Spinvox now to be honest, as they've come out of this looking like liars, and nobody likes a liar.. Time will tell

  • http://www.kcjhdesign.co.uk Kip Hakes

    Yes, brilliant post, I was slightly concerned how this one would be handled, but it's great to see that you've summed it all up well (perhaps lacking the venom seen elsewhere!) Not really sure where this leaves Spinvox now to be honest, as they've come out of this looking like liars, and nobody likes a liar.. Time will tell

  • Come on

    On the first one, “the agents in question will only ever hear/see the specific parts” the original point was that only the PARTS of the message are sent to the agent, not the entire message, so that no individual agent would have access to more than a discrete piece of private data. The reports of the demo do not support this fact assertion.

    On the second one, about “completely anonymised” messages, the original point was that personally-identifiable and sensitive information contained in the content of the message recording is anonymised, but in fact Milo’s name was sent on to the transcriber during the demo. If Milo’s demo message was a real SpinVox message, and if for example, he was discussing the possible resignation of the official blogger for a company much in the news, that sensitive but un-anonymised information would apparently have been passed to a person in a call center somewhere.

    Perhaps the writer of the SpinVox blog post was poorly informed. But how did that happen, and who is taking responsibility? IIRC, writers for this site gave much positive attention to this particular blog post when it was published.

  • Come on

    On the first one, “the agents in question will only ever hear/see the specific parts” the original point was that only the PARTS of the message are sent to the agent, not the entire message, so that no individual agent would have access to more than a discrete piece of private data. The reports of the demo do not support this fact assertion.

    On the second one, about “completely anonymised” messages, the original point was that personally-identifiable and sensitive information contained in the content of the message recording is anonymised, but in fact Milo’s name was sent on to the transcriber during the demo. If Milo’s demo message was a real SpinVox message, and if for example, he was discussing the possible resignation of the official blogger for a company much in the news, that sensitive but un-anonymised information would apparently have been passed to a person in a call center somewhere.

    Perhaps the writer of the SpinVox blog post was poorly informed. But how did that happen, and who is taking responsibility? IIRC, writers for this site gave much positive attention to this particular blog post when it was published.

  • Come on

    On the first one, “the agents in question will only ever hear/see the specific parts” the original point was that only the PARTS of the message are sent to the agent, not the entire message, so that no individual agent would have access to more than a discrete piece of private data. The reports of the demo do not support this fact assertion.

    On the second one, about “completely anonymised” messages, the original point was that personally-identifiable and sensitive information contained in the content of the message recording is anonymised, but in fact Milo’s name was sent on to the transcriber during the demo. If Milo’s demo message was a real SpinVox message, and if for example, he was discussing the possible resignation of the official blogger for a company much in the news, that sensitive but un-anonymised information would apparently have been passed to a person in a call center somewhere.

    Perhaps the writer of the SpinVox blog post was poorly informed. But how did that happen, and who is taking responsibility? IIRC, writers for this site gave much positive attention to this particular blog post when it was published.

  • Come on

    On the first one, “the agents in question will only ever hear/see the specific parts” the original point was that only the PARTS of the message are sent to the agent, not the entire message, so that no individual agent would have access to more than a discrete piece of private data. The reports of the demo do not support this fact assertion.

    On the second one, about “completely anonymised” messages, the original point was that personally-identifiable and sensitive information contained in the content of the message recording is anonymised, but in fact Milo’s name was sent on to the transcriber during the demo. If Milo’s demo message was a real SpinVox message, and if for example, he was discussing the possible resignation of the official blogger for a company much in the news, that sensitive but un-anonymised information would apparently have been passed to a person in a call center somewhere.

    Perhaps the writer of the SpinVox blog post was poorly informed. But how did that happen, and who is taking responsibility? IIRC, writers for this site gave much positive attention to this particular blog post when it was published.

  • Come on

    On the first one, “the agents in question will only ever hear/see the specific parts” the original point was that only the PARTS of the message are sent to the agent, not the entire message, so that no individual agent would have access to more than a discrete piece of private data. The reports of the demo do not support this fact assertion.

    On the second one, about “completely anonymised” messages, the original point was that personally-identifiable and sensitive information contained in the content of the message recording is anonymised, but in fact Milo’s name was sent on to the transcriber during the demo. If Milo’s demo message was a real SpinVox message, and if for example, he was discussing the possible resignation of the official blogger for a company much in the news, that sensitive but un-anonymised information would apparently have been passed to a person in a call center somewhere.

    Perhaps the writer of the SpinVox blog post was poorly informed. But how did that happen, and who is taking responsibility? IIRC, writers for this site gave much positive attention to this particular blog post when it was published.

  • http://thereallymobileproject.com/ Really Mobile

    We are testing their product and have spoken to their management team.

  • http://thereallymobileproject.com/ Really Mobile

    We are testing their product and have spoken to their management team.

  • http://benjam.in Ben Smith

    I was told by SpinVox's PR that Daniel Doulton was unable to participate on Tuesday as he would be on paternity leave. I expect that may explain his recent silence.

  • http://benjam.in Ben Smith

    I was told by SpinVox's PR that Daniel Doulton was unable to
    participate on Tuesday as he would be on paternity leave. I expect
    that may explain his recent silence.

  • http://benjam.in Ben Smith

    Yes those are *an* interpretation of what was said, but if you want to call someone a liar you need to be able to demonstrate it is the *only* reasonable interpretation… I don’t think you can.

    I am not defending what SpinVox *has* done wrong, I just don’t have any firm evidence to accuse them of lying. I think if you check the large sites that have covered this story, none of them have gone as far as accusing SpinVox of lying either.

    Since you’re not prepared to stand behind your comments by disclosing who you are I’d suggest we agree to disagree and end this thread.

  • http://benjam.in Ben Smith

    Yes those are *an* interpretation of what was said, but if you want to call someone a liar you need to be able to demonstrate it is the *only* reasonable interpretation… I don’t think you can.

    I am not defending what SpinVox *has* done wrong, I just don’t have any firm evidence to accuse them of lying. I think if you check the large sites that have covered this story, none of them have gone as far as accusing SpinVox of lying either.

    Since you’re not prepared to stand behind your comments by disclosing who you are I’d suggest we agree to disagree and end this thread.

  • http://benjam.in Ben Smith

    Yes those are *an* interpretation of what was said, but if you want to call someone a liar you need to be able to demonstrate it is the *only* reasonable interpretation… I don’t think you can.

    I am not defending what SpinVox *has* done wrong, I just don’t have any firm evidence to accuse them of lying. I think if you check the large sites that have covered this story, none of them have gone as far as accusing SpinVox of lying either.

    Since you’re not prepared to stand behind your comments by disclosing who you are I’d suggest we agree to disagree and end this thread.

  • http://benjam.in Ben Smith

    Yes those are *an* interpretation of what was said, but if you want to call someone a liar you need to be able to demonstrate it is the *only* reasonable interpretation… I don’t think you can.

    I am not defending what SpinVox *has* done wrong, I just don’t have any firm evidence to accuse them of lying. I think if you check the large sites that have covered this story, none of them have gone as far as accusing SpinVox of lying either.

    Since you’re not prepared to stand behind your comments by disclosing who you are I’d suggest we agree to disagree and end this thread.

  • Come on

    Yes, let’s agree to disagree. This thread came in response to your comment about whether SpinVox had lied to you.

    Your definition of a lie is very different from the one I learned from my parents and teachers. But you are entitled to your opinion.

    I think that lying is more about intention. I think the issue of what is true or factual or provable or plausible is the better question. But I do think that questions of intention will become more common if the scandal deepens.

    Thanks your writing and for allowing me to participate in this forum.

  • Come on

    Yes, let’s agree to disagree. This thread came in response to your comment about whether SpinVox had lied to you.

    Your definition of a lie is very different from the one I learned from my parents and teachers. But you are entitled to your opinion.

    I think that lying is more about intention. I think the issue of what is true or factual or provable or plausible is the better question. But I do think that questions of intention will become more common if the scandal deepens.

    Thanks your writing and for allowing me to participate in this forum.

  • Come on

    Yes, let’s agree to disagree. This thread came in response to your comment about whether SpinVox had lied to you.

    Your definition of a lie is very different from the one I learned from my parents and teachers. But you are entitled to your opinion.

    I think that lying is more about intention. I think the issue of what is true or factual or provable or plausible is the better question. But I do think that questions of intention will become more common if the scandal deepens.

    Thanks your writing and for allowing me to participate in this forum.

  • Come on

    Yes, let’s agree to disagree. This thread came in response to your comment about whether SpinVox had lied to you.

    Your definition of a lie is very different from the one I learned from my parents and teachers. But you are entitled to your opinion.

    I think that lying is more about intention. I think the issue of what is true or factual or provable or plausible is the better question. But I do think that questions of intention will become more common if the scandal deepens.

    Thanks your writing and for allowing me to participate in this forum.

  • Come on

    Yes, let’s agree to disagree. This thread came in response to your comment about whether SpinVox had lied to you.

    Your definition of a lie is very different from the one I learned from my parents and teachers. But you are entitled to your opinion.

    I think that lying is more about intention. I think the issue of what is true or factual or provable or plausible is the better question. But I do think that questions of intention will become more common if the scandal deepens.

    Thanks your writing and for allowing me to participate in this forum.

  • http://twitter.com/nuxnix Angus Fox

    Dont patents become public once they are filed? It should be possible to see all of them.Really good report. It strikes me that the steps in the wrong order, and the perfect demo message mean that this was pre-scripted.I love my Spinvox system, and Im glad to hear that it works more or less as I hypothesised with the (?) and the ____ - but its worrying to me that the whole message is assembled for a human.

  • http://twitter.com/nuxnix Angus Fox

    Dont patents become public once they are filed? It should be possible to see all of them.

    Really good report. It strikes me that the steps in the wrong order, and the perfect demo message mean that this was pre-scripted.

    I love my Spinvox system, and Im glad to hear that it works more or less as I hypothesised with the (?) and the ____ - but its worrying to me that the whole message is assembled for a human.

  • http://twitter.com/DominicTravers dominictravers

    Great balance, thank you gentlemen.

  • http://twitter.com/DominicTravers dominictravers

    Great balance, thank you gentlemen.

  • http://benjam.in Ben Smith

    re: patents. Not *immediately*, hence our assessment they had only very recently been granted.

  • http://benjam.in Ben Smith

    re: patents. Not *immediately*, hence our assessment they had only very recently been granted.

  • http://benjam.in Ben Smith

    I cannot think of any information SpinVox or their staff has ever presented to me that I now consider to be a lie. However, I do think they use imprecise language at time from which people draw the wrong conclusions - things such as referring to the accuracy of 'the system' which includes a human correcting transcriptions, but people assume means just the automated part….it's the politician's skill of answering the question you want to, not always the one that was asked.

  • http://benjam.in Ben Smith

    I cannot think of any information SpinVox or their staff has ever presented to me that I now consider to be a lie. However, I do think they use imprecise language at time from which people draw the wrong conclusions - things such as referring to the accuracy of 'the system' which includes a human correcting transcriptions, but people assume means just the automated part.

    …it's the politician's skill of answering the question you want to, not always the one that was asked.

  • http://www.kcjhdesign.co.uk Kip Hakes

    Yes.. I see what you're saying, but it's just so frustrating to have so much, well 'Spin', I want honesty, not carefully crafted statements dodging the bullets.

  • http://www.kcjhdesign.co.uk Kip Hakes

    Yes.. I see what you're saying, but it's just so frustrating to have so much, well 'Spin', I want honesty, not carefully crafted statements dodging the bullets.

  • Turing Test in reverse

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/culturepictu...

  • Turing Test in reverse

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/culturepictu...

  • Come on

    What is the definition of lying at The Really Mobile Project? The following are examples of declarations of fact:“the agents in question will only ever hear/see the specific parts of the messages that need work on.” Only. Ever. No ifs ands or buts.“’BUT! What about ALL that personal data in each and every voicemail?!’ I hear you cry.. Yes. Well. Any messages that need analysis for further conversion are COMPLETELY anonymised before being sent out of SpinVox data centres to QC houses” Completely anonymised. COMPLETELY. “Sounds ridiculous I know, but the key thing here is that we have kick-ass data security standards that, in the entire history of our Voicemail Conversion System (VMCS), have NEVER BEEN BREACHED.” No-one knew if the audio and images posted on Facebook, allegedly by an Egyptian call centre during a training and assessment period, were real customers’ data. [emphasis in the original] July 27, 2025 http://blog.spinvox.com/ No, this is not just Spin – putting information into a more favourable context, attempting to influence perceptions. No, this is making false statements of fact. This is personally attesting to falsehoods.

  • Come on

    What is the definition of lying at The Really Mobile Project? The following are examples of declarations of fact:

    “the agents in question will only ever hear/see the specific parts of the messages that need work on.” Only. Ever. No ifs ands or buts.

    “’BUT! What about ALL that personal data in each and every voicemail?!’ I hear you cry.. Yes. Well. Any messages that need analysis for further conversion are COMPLETELY anonymised before being sent out of SpinVox data centres to QC houses” Completely anonymised. COMPLETELY.

    “Sounds ridiculous I know, but the key thing here is that we have kick-ass data security standards that, in the entire history of our Voicemail Conversion System (VMCS), have NEVER BEEN BREACHED.” No-one knew if the audio and images posted on Facebook, allegedly by an Egyptian call centre during a training and assessment period, were real customers’ data.

    [emphasis in the original] July 27, 2025 http://blog.spinvox.com/

    No, this is not just Spin – putting information into a more favourable context, attempting to influence perceptions.

    No, this is making false statements of fact. This is personally attesting to falsehoods.

  • http://benjam.in Ben Smith

    But what about this analysis:“the agents in question will only ever hear/see the specific parts of the messages that need work on.” …but if the automated system is really bad then all parts of all messages could be said to 'need work on'.“’BUT! What about ALL that personal data in each and every voicemail?!’ I hear you cry.. Yes. Well. Any messages that need analysis for further conversion are COMPLETELY anonymised before being sent out of SpinVox data centres to QC houses” … from what we saw the identity of the caller and recipient are not shown to the human transcriber so it could be said to be anonymised in that respect.“Sounds ridiculous I know, but the key thing here is that we have kick-ass data security standards that, in the entire history of our Voicemail Conversion System (VMCS), have NEVER BEEN BREACHED.” …even if the images on Facebook *are* users' old data, it wasn't leaked by a breach in the VMCS, but by a leak in their training programme.Note: I don't find these arguments any more convincing or satisfying than I suspect you do… I'm just trying to demonstrate how language can be twisted to mean different things and that even these apparently rock-solid statements leave room for interpretation.Now… How about you come out from behind the anonymous veil and let's have a proper discussion about this? Please?

  • http://benjam.in Ben Smith

    But what about this analysis:

    “the agents in question will only ever hear/see the specific parts of the messages that need work on.” …but if the automated system is really bad then all parts of all messages could be said to 'need work on'.

    “’BUT! What about ALL that personal data in each and every voicemail?!’ I hear you cry.. Yes. Well. Any messages that need analysis for further conversion are COMPLETELY anonymised before being sent out of SpinVox data centres to QC houses” … from what we saw the identity of the caller and recipient are not shown to the human transcriber so it could be said to be anonymised in that respect.

    “Sounds ridiculous I know, but the key thing here is that we have kick-ass data security standards that, in the entire history of our Voicemail Conversion System (VMCS), have NEVER BEEN BREACHED.” …even if the images on Facebook *are* users' old data, it wasn't leaked by a breach in the VMCS, but by a leak in their training programme.

    Note: I don't find these arguments any more convincing or satisfying than I suspect you do… I'm just trying to demonstrate how language can be twisted to mean different things and that even these apparently rock-solid statements leave room for interpretation.

    Now… How about you come out from behind the anonymous veil and let's have a proper discussion about this? Please?

  • Come on

    On the first one, “the agents in question will only ever hear/see the specific parts” the original point was that only the PARTS of the message are sent to the agent, not the entire message, so that no individual agent would have access to more than a discrete piece of private data. The reports of the demo do not support this fact assertion.On the second one, about “completely anonymised” messages, the original point was that personally-identifiable and sensitive information contained in the content of the message recording is anonymised, but in fact Milo's name was sent on to the transcriber during the demo. If Milo's demo message was a real SpinVox message, and if for example, he was discussing the possible resignation of the official blogger for a company much in the news, that sensitive but un-anonymised information would apparently have been passed to a person in a call center somewhere.Perhaps the writer of the SpinVox blog post was poorly informed. But how did that happen, and who is taking responsibility? IIRC, writers for this site gave much positive attention to this particular blog post when it was published.

  • Come on

    On the first one, “the agents in question will only ever hear/see the specific parts” the original point was that only the PARTS of the message are sent to the agent, not the entire message, so that no individual agent would have access to more than a discrete piece of private data. The reports of the demo do not support this fact assertion.

    On the second one, about “completely anonymised” messages, the original point was that personally-identifiable and sensitive information contained in the content of the message recording is anonymised, but in fact Milo's name was sent on to the transcriber during the demo. If Milo's demo message was a real SpinVox message, and if for example, he was discussing the possible resignation of the official blogger for a company much in the news, that sensitive but un-anonymised information would apparently have been passed to a person in a call center somewhere.

    Perhaps the writer of the SpinVox blog post was poorly informed. But how did that happen, and who is taking responsibility? IIRC, writers for this site gave much positive attention to this particular blog post when it was published.

  • http://benjam.in Ben Smith

    Yes those are *an* interpretation of what was said, but if you want to call someone a liar you need to be able to demonstrate it is the *only* reasonable interpretation… I don't think you can.I am not defending what SpinVox *has* done wrong, I just don't have any firm evidence to accuse them of lying. I think if you check the large sites that have covered this story, none of them have gone as far as accusing SpinVox of lying either.Since you're not prepared to stand behind your comments by disclosing who you are I'd suggest we agree to disagree and end this thread.

  • http://benjam.in Ben Smith

    Yes those are *an* interpretation of what was said, but if you want to call someone a liar you need to be able to demonstrate it is the *only* reasonable interpretation… I don't think you can.

    I am not defending what SpinVox *has* done wrong, I just don't have any firm evidence to accuse them of lying. I think if you check the large sites that have covered this story, none of them have gone as far as accusing SpinVox of lying either.

    Since you're not prepared to stand behind your comments by disclosing who you are I'd suggest we agree to disagree and end this thread.

  • Come on

    Yes, let's agree to disagree. This thread came in response to your comment about whether SpinVox had lied to you.Your definition of a lie is very different from the one I learned from my parents and teachers. But you are entitled to your opinion.I think that lying is more about intention. I think the issue of what is true or factual or provable or plausible is the better question. But I do think that questions of intention will become more common if the scandal deepens.Thanks your writing and for allowing me to participate in this forum.

  • Come on

    Yes, let's agree to disagree. This thread came in response to your comment about whether SpinVox had lied to you.

    Your definition of a lie is very different from the one I learned from my parents and teachers. But you are entitled to your opinion.

    I think that lying is more about intention. I think the issue of what is true or factual or provable or plausible is the better question. But I do think that questions of intention will become more common if the scandal deepens.

    Thanks your writing and for allowing me to participate in this forum.

  • Mike42

    hmmm…too much time in the murky underworld of consulting gives you a penchant for mountaineering in the Alps wearing rodent fur?

  • Mike42

    hmmm…too much time in the murky underworld of consulting gives you a penchant for mountaineering in the Alps wearing rodent fur?

  • Mike42

    hmmm…too much time in the murky underworld of consulting gives you a penchant for mountaineering in the Alps wearing rodent fur?

  • Mike42

    hmmm…too much time in the murky underworld of consulting gives you a penchant for mountaineering in the Alps wearing rodent fur?

  • Mike42

    hmmm…too much time in the murky underworld of consulting gives you a penchant for mountaineering in the Alps wearing rodent fur?

  • Mike42

    hmmm…too much time in the murky underworld of consulting gives you a penchant for mountaineering in the Alps wearing rodent fur?

  • Mike42

    hmmm…too much time in the murky underworld of consulting gives you a penchant for mountaineering in the Alps wearing rodent fur?

  • Anonymous

    Well done, a fair point of view. Guess I’m checking the show myself to experience first hand.

    Signature: Telling stories with right storyboarding presentation together with PowerPoint presentation is like owning a printing press and printing your own currency.

  • Anonymous

    Well done, a fair point of view. Guess I’m checking the show myself to experience first hand.

    Signature: Telling stories with right storyboarding presentation together with PowerPoint presentation is like owning a printing press and printing your own currency.

  • Anonymous

    Well done, a fair point of view. Guess I’m checking the show myself to experience first hand.

    Signature: Telling stories with right storyboarding presentation together with PowerPoint presentation is like owning a printing press and printing your own currency.

  • Anonymous

    Well done, a fair point of view. Guess I’m checking the show myself to experience first hand.

    Signature: Telling stories with right storyboarding presentation together with PowerPoint presentation is like owning a printing press and printing your own currency.

  • Anonymous

    Well done, a fair point of view. Guess I’m checking the show myself to experience first hand.

    Signature: Telling stories with right storyboarding presentation together with PowerPoint presentation is like owning a printing press and printing your own currency.

  • storyboarding

    Well done, a fair point of view. Guess I'm checking the show myself to experience first hand.Signature: Telling stories with right storyboarding presentation together with PowerPoint presentation is like owning a printing press and printing your own currency.

  • storyboarding

    Well done, a fair point of view. Guess I'm checking the show myself to experience first hand.

    Signature: Telling stories with right storyboarding presentation together with PowerPoint presentation is like owning a printing press and printing your own currency.

  • http://www.sample.org.uk/blog/ dsample

    Great article, very clear.

    I just don’t see what all the fuss is about. If I call my bank, they have call centres around the world and they have access to far more private data than the content of a voicemail message.

    Yes it’s marketed as a highly-autonomous service, but they don’t specifically say they don’t use humans, and if I actually used the service (I don’t get enough voicemails to warrant it) I wouldn’t care *how* it was done, as long as that ’97% accuracy’ was somewhat true of the service as a whole. Jott and others don’t say they use humans for all the transcribing in their marketing either.

    I’d be interested in your opinions of the other transcription services as something to compare SpinVox against, more about the privacy/security of those alternatives than the quality.

  • http://www.sample.org.uk/blog/ dsample

    Great article, very clear.

    I just don’t see what all the fuss is about. If I call my bank, they have call centres around the world and they have access to far more private data than the content of a voicemail message.

    Yes it’s marketed as a highly-autonomous service, but they don’t specifically say they don’t use humans, and if I actually used the service (I don’t get enough voicemails to warrant it) I wouldn’t care *how* it was done, as long as that ’97% accuracy’ was somewhat true of the service as a whole. Jott and others don’t say they use humans for all the transcribing in their marketing either.

    I’d be interested in your opinions of the other transcription services as something to compare SpinVox against, more about the privacy/security of those alternatives than the quality.

  • http://www.sample.org.uk/blog/ dsample

    Great article, very clear.

    I just don’t see what all the fuss is about. If I call my bank, they have call centres around the world and they have access to far more private data than the content of a voicemail message.

    Yes it’s marketed as a highly-autonomous service, but they don’t specifically say they don’t use humans, and if I actually used the service (I don’t get enough voicemails to warrant it) I wouldn’t care *how* it was done, as long as that ’97% accuracy’ was somewhat true of the service as a whole. Jott and others don’t say they use humans for all the transcribing in their marketing either.

    I’d be interested in your opinions of the other transcription services as something to compare SpinVox against, more about the privacy/security of those alternatives than the quality.

  • http://www.sample.org.uk/blog/ dsample

    Great article, very clear.

    I just don’t see what all the fuss is about. If I call my bank, they have call centres around the world and they have access to far more private data than the content of a voicemail message.

    Yes it’s marketed as a highly-autonomous service, but they don’t specifically say they don’t use humans, and if I actually used the service (I don’t get enough voicemails to warrant it) I wouldn’t care *how* it was done, as long as that ’97% accuracy’ was somewhat true of the service as a whole. Jott and others don’t say they use humans for all the transcribing in their marketing either.

    I’d be interested in your opinions of the other transcription services as something to compare SpinVox against, more about the privacy/security of those alternatives than the quality.

  • http://www.sample.org.uk/blog/ dsample

    Great article, very clear.

    I just don’t see what all the fuss is about. If I call my bank, they have call centres around the world and they have access to far more private data than the content of a voicemail message.

    Yes it’s marketed as a highly-autonomous service, but they don’t specifically say they don’t use humans, and if I actually used the service (I don’t get enough voicemails to warrant it) I wouldn’t care *how* it was done, as long as that ’97% accuracy’ was somewhat true of the service as a whole. Jott and others don’t say they use humans for all the transcribing in their marketing either.

    I’d be interested in your opinions of the other transcription services as something to compare SpinVox against, more about the privacy/security of those alternatives than the quality.

  • http://benjam.in Ben Smith

    Many people will agree with you. However, I’ve heard a number comments that however good an entirely human transcription service was they would be surprised if anyone would invest £100m+ in it… It’s a commoditiy, low-margin service… widely available. The argument that’s been made is that the value for the current investors would be entirely in the ground-breaking technology SpinVox claim to have developed.

    We are actively looking at other services (business and technology-wise).

  • http://benjam.in Ben Smith

    Many people will agree with you. However, I’ve heard a number comments that however good an entirely human transcription service was they would be surprised if anyone would invest £100m+ in it… It’s a commoditiy, low-margin service… widely available. The argument that’s been made is that the value for the current investors would be entirely in the ground-breaking technology SpinVox claim to have developed.

    We are actively looking at other services (business and technology-wise).

  • http://benjam.in Ben Smith

    Many people will agree with you. However, I’ve heard a number comments that however good an entirely human transcription service was they would be surprised if anyone would invest £100m+ in it… It’s a commoditiy, low-margin service… widely available. The argument that’s been made is that the value for the current investors would be entirely in the ground-breaking technology SpinVox claim to have developed.

    We are actively looking at other services (business and technology-wise).

  • http://benjam.in Ben Smith

    Many people will agree with you. However, I’ve heard a number comments that however good an entirely human transcription service was they would be surprised if anyone would invest £100m+ in it… It’s a commoditiy, low-margin service… widely available. The argument that’s been made is that the value for the current investors would be entirely in the ground-breaking technology SpinVox claim to have developed.

    We are actively looking at other services (business and technology-wise).

  • http://benjam.in Ben Smith

    Many people will agree with you. However, I’ve heard a number comments that however good an entirely human transcription service was they would be surprised if anyone would invest £100m+ in it… It’s a commoditiy, low-margin service… widely available. The argument that’s been made is that the value for the current investors would be entirely in the ground-breaking technology SpinVox claim to have developed.

    We are actively looking at other services (business and technology-wise).

  • http://www.sample.org.uk/blog/ dsample

    Great article, very clear.I just don't see what all the fuss is about. If I call my bank, they have call centres around the world and they have access to far more private data than the content of a voicemail message.Yes it's marketed as a highly-autonomous service, but they don't specifically say they don't use humans, and if I actually used the service (I don't get enough voicemails to warrant it) I wouldn't care *how* it was done, as long as that '97% accuracy' was somewhat true of the service as a whole. Jott and others don't say they use humans for all the transcribing in their marketing either.I'd be interested in your opinions of the other transcription services as something to compare SpinVox against, more about the privacy/security of those alternatives than the quality.

  • http://www.sample.org.uk/blog/ dsample

    Great article, very clear.

    I just don't see what all the fuss is about. If I call my bank, they have call centres around the world and they have access to far more private data than the content of a voicemail message.

    Yes it's marketed as a highly-autonomous service, but they don't specifically say they don't use humans, and if I actually used the service (I don't get enough voicemails to warrant it) I wouldn't care *how* it was done, as long as that '97% accuracy' was somewhat true of the service as a whole. Jott and others don't say they use humans for all the transcribing in their marketing either.

    I'd be interested in your opinions of the other transcription services as something to compare SpinVox against, more about the privacy/security of those alternatives than the quality.

  • http://benjam.in Ben Smith

    Many people will agree with you. However, I've heard a number comments that however good an entirely human transcription service was they would be surprised if anyone would invest £100m+ in it… It's a commoditiy, low-margin service… widely available. The argument that's been made is that the value for the current investors would be entirely in the ground-breaking technology SpinVox claim to have developed.We are actively looking at other services (business and technology-wise).

  • http://benjam.in Ben Smith

    Many people will agree with you. However, I've heard a number comments that however good an entirely human transcription service was they would be surprised if anyone would invest £100m+ in it… It's a commoditiy, low-margin service… widely available. The argument that's been made is that the value for the current investors would be entirely in the ground-breaking technology SpinVox claim to have developed.

    We are actively looking at other services (business and technology-wise).

  • http://www.sample.org.uk/blog/ dsample

    ok, so the issue is the investments that have been made. Is it really a valid case though, to bring the world’s media into an issue between inverters and the subject of the investment? Surely they should have done their research of the technology themselves rather than getting the BBC to try and piece it together? Afterall, they should be able to open more doors, since they own part of the company/technology.

  • http://www.sample.org.uk/blog/ dsample

    ok, so the issue is the investments that have been made. Is it really a valid case though, to bring the world’s media into an issue between inverters and the subject of the investment? Surely they should have done their research of the technology themselves rather than getting the BBC to try and piece it together? Afterall, they should be able to open more doors, since they own part of the company/technology.

  • http://www.sample.org.uk/blog/ dsample

    ok, so the issue is the investments that have been made. Is it really a valid case though, to bring the world’s media into an issue between inverters and the subject of the investment? Surely they should have done their research of the technology themselves rather than getting the BBC to try and piece it together? Afterall, they should be able to open more doors, since they own part of the company/technology.

  • http://www.sample.org.uk/blog/ dsample

    ok, so the issue is the investments that have been made. Is it really a valid case though, to bring the world’s media into an issue between inverters and the subject of the investment? Surely they should have done their research of the technology themselves rather than getting the BBC to try and piece it together? Afterall, they should be able to open more doors, since they own part of the company/technology.

  • http://www.sample.org.uk/blog/ dsample

    ok, so the issue is the investments that have been made. Is it really a valid case though, to bring the world’s media into an issue between inverters and the subject of the investment? Surely they should have done their research of the technology themselves rather than getting the BBC to try and piece it together? Afterall, they should be able to open more doors, since they own part of the company/technology.

  • http://benjam.in Ben Smith

    An entirely fair point, so the debate moves to: “did they have all the info”
    and “if, so why did they invest in it?”
    All the info the BBC published has been common knowledge for a long time…
    for me the only difference was that because it was the BBC repeating these
    claims now (albeit with a direct source too) SpinVox was forced to respond
    and *thats* when I and others was disappointed how poorly the technology
    worked… Previously we’d had to guess or take the firm’s / critics’ word
    for how it did.

  • http://benjam.in Ben Smith

    An entirely fair point, so the debate moves to: “did they have all the info”
    and “if, so why did they invest in it?”
    All the info the BBC published has been common knowledge for a long time…
    for me the only difference was that because it was the BBC repeating these
    claims now (albeit with a direct source too) SpinVox was forced to respond
    and *thats* when I and others was disappointed how poorly the technology
    worked… Previously we’d had to guess or take the firm’s / critics’ word
    for how it did.

  • http://www.sample.org.uk/blog/ dsample

    ok, so the issue is the investments that have been made. Is it really a valid case though, to bring the world's media into an issue between inverters and the subject of the investment? Surely they should have done their research of the technology themselves rather than getting the BBC to try and piece it together? Afterall, they should be able to open more doors, since they own part of the company/technology.

  • http://www.sample.org.uk/blog/ dsample

    ok, so the issue is the investments that have been made. Is it really a valid case though, to bring the world's media into an issue between inverters and the subject of the investment? Surely they should have done their research of the technology themselves rather than getting the BBC to try and piece it together? Afterall, they should be able to open more doors, since they own part of the company/technology.

  • http://benjam.in Ben Smith

    An entirely fair point, so the debate moves to: “did they have all the info”and “if, so why did they invest in it?”All the info the BBC published has been common knowledge for a long time…for me the only difference was that because it was the BBC repeating theseclaims now (albeit with a direct source too) SpinVox was forced to respondand *thats* when I and others was disappointed how poorly the technologyworked… Previously we'd had to guess or take the firm's / critics' wordfor how it did.

  • http://benjam.in Ben Smith

    An entirely fair point, so the debate moves to: “did they have all the info”
    and “if, so why did they invest in it?”
    All the info the BBC published has been common knowledge for a long time…
    for me the only difference was that because it was the BBC repeating these
    claims now (albeit with a direct source too) SpinVox was forced to respond
    and *thats* when I and others was disappointed how poorly the technology
    worked… Previously we'd had to guess or take the firm's / critics' word
    for how it did.

  • http://thereallymobileproject.com/2009/08/spinvox-goes-free-in-the-uk/ The Really Mobile Project » Blog Archive » SpinVox goes free in the UK

    [...] you may have read in the coverage of our recent SpinVox visit we noticed that the build date for SpinVox’s Tenzing software was mere days before our [...]

  • http://speechtotext.wordpress.com/2009/08/23/out-with-the-old/ Out with the Old… « Speech Recognition

    [...] It seems that SpinVox’s demo day had its share of, um, “problems” as well. Possibly related posts: (automatically [...]

  • http://funnyoldlife.wordpress.com/2009/09/24/to-spin-or-not-to-spin/ To spin or not to spin … « I look so I can hear….

    [...] I’m not going to go into all the ins and outs of this issue as I’ve had one of those rare weeks. Meh. I’m just bringing it to your attention. For an interesting commentary on all this spin, check out this post after the jump and this post on Spinvox’s demo day. [...]

  • http://www.focusvmt.com/ John Smith

    Nuance which powers the visual voicemail for Vonage and AT&T has its voicemails 100% manually transcribed from a call center in India. Now if that is not infringement of data privacy then what is? I am posting the link of the call center ID where this transcription is done http://www.focusvmt.com/

  • http://www.focusvmt.com/ John Smith

    Nuance which powers the visual voicemail for Vonage and AT&T has its voicemails 100% manually transcribed from a call center in India. Now if that is not infringement of data privacy then what is? I am posting the link of the call center ID where this transcription is done http://www.focusvmt.com/

  • http://www.focusvmt.com/ John Smith

    Nuance which powers the visual voicemail for Vonage and AT&T has its voicemails 100% manually transcribed from a call center in India. Now if that is not infringement of data privacy then what is? I am posting the link of the call center ID where this transcription is done http://www.focusvmt.com/

  • http://benjam.in Ben Smith

    It depends what you mean by ‘data privacy’ and which jurisdiction you live in (for legal meaning), but in my opinion human transcription is not a breach of privacy… Poorly managed human transcription may be, but it’s not given. Other people handle my personal data every day (the bank, the HR people at work, my boss, friends and family)… the key is how they treat it.

  • http://benjam.in Ben Smith

    It depends what you mean by 'data privacy' and which jurisdiction you live in (for legal meaning), but in my opinion human transcription is not a breach of privacy… Poorly managed human transcription may be, but it's not given. Other people handle my personal data every day (the bank, the HR people at work, my boss, friends and family)… the key is how they treat it.

  • http://benjam.in Ben Smith

    It depends what you mean by 'data privacy' and which jurisdiction you live in (for legal meaning), but in my opinion human transcription is not a breach of privacy… Poorly managed human transcription may be, but it's not given. Other people handle my personal data every day (the bank, the HR people at work, my boss, friends and family)… the key is how they treat it.

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